mishtergrolsch Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, DanMc99 said: you get one chance and we'll keep playing mcburnie... Aye, hes not been good but he got asked to play and he said yes. This bloke has told us he'd rather not play for Scotland and he wants to try the England squad. No problem with that. He just shouldn't be asked again. There are other guys out there who want to play for Scotland who should he given a chance now. What message does it send to the young guys out there? Don't worry boys, you're all getting rubbered when the next guy with a Scottish gold fish feels like playing for us when the country of his birth has told him he's no getting a game. Say what you want about McBurnie being shite or not, in fairness to the guy hes turned up when asked, as have the other guys in the squad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 No one is questioning McBurnie's commitment, were questioning his ability. Which has been found wanting again and again. Clarke needs to explore other options when Dykes isn't available. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMc99 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, mishtergrolsch said: Aye, hes not been good but he got asked to play and he said yes. This bloke has told us he'd rather not play for Scotland and he wants to try the England squad. No problem with that. He just shouldn't be asked again. There are other guys out there who want to play for Scotland who should he given a chance now. What message does it send to the young guys out there? Don't worry boys, you're all getting rubbered when the next guy with a Scottish gold fish feels like playing for us when the country of his birth has told him he's no getting a game. Say what you want about McBurnie being shite or not, in fairness to the guy hes turned up when asked, as have the other guys in the squad. I understand that view, but whether he turned us down once or not, if he's good and can improve us I have no issue trying again. same as when a player may turn a certain club down initially. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said: Look, everyone arguing for Griffiths is right...to a certain extent. I agree he's a natural goalscorer, and over the last 7 or 8 years the best Scottish striker in Scotland. But.....he's now 30. He only has 21 caps in 8 years and very few as a starter. He has a massive 4 goals, 2 from free kicks. At what point do we start to look at why consecutive Scotland managers don't think he's all that good ? It's not so much that they don't think he's "all that good" but that for a variety of reasons, he's regularly not available or of suspect fitness. His mental health and off field issues have been a major factor, he's regularly not been deemed fit enough to even get involved for his club. He's the best Scottish natural goalscorer of his generation but he's not got anywhere near the caps he should because his attitude and application has been decidedly suspect for most of his career. A fit and motivated Griffiths has to be in the squad. If nothing else, he's our best option by miles off the bench if we need a late goal. I'm not sure he's a reliable enough starter though, certainly not ahead of Dykes. It would be interesting to see if he could form a partnership feeding off Dykes in the way that Dobbie did at club level. It's not really Clarke's formation style though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: It's not so much that they don't think he's "all that good" but that for a variety of reasons, he's regularly not available or of suspect fitness. His mental health and off field issues have been a major factor, he's regularly not been deemed fit enough to even get involved for his club. He's the best Scottish natural goalscorer of his generation but he's not got anywhere near the caps he should because his attitude and application has been decidedly suspect for most of his career. A fit and motivated Griffiths has to be in the squad. If nothing else, he's our best option by miles off the bench if we need a late goal. I'm not sure he's a reliable enough starter though, certainly not ahead of Dykes. It would be interesting to see if he could form a partnership feeding off Dykes in the way that Dobbie did at club level. It's not really Clarke's formation style though. Fit and motivated is your problem here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: Fit and motivated is your problem here I'm aware of this. That was literally the entire commentary of the first paragraph! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, TheScarf said: No one is questioning McBurnie's commitment, were questioning his ability. Which has been found wanting again and again. Clarke needs to explore other options when Dykes isn't available. I just don't see Clarke doing that. Just last week he said McBurnie was a player he liked a lot and whilst he didn't think his partnership with Dykes "sparked" there were grounds for exploring things further. I agree that McBurnie has looked a bit out of place in his performances so far but I was a big critic of Clarke's 5-3-2 formation and I was spectacularly wrong about that. If Clarke thinks he can get a tune out of McBurnie then I'm happy for him to be included in the squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: I'm aware of this. That was literally the entire commentary of the first paragraph! Aye, I realised that after I replied. My fault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishtergrolsch Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 hours ago, DanMc99 said: I understand that view, but whether he turned us down once or not, if he's good and can improve us I have no issue trying again. same as when a player may turn a certain club down initially. I see where you're coming from but club and country is a different argument. A player could turn a club down due to better terms on offer. If that club is still interested at a later date the player may well take that same offer if its the best at the time. International football is a privilege and an honour. Or at least it should be. Not a wait till i feel like playing for that country type thing. Not the right attitude. Just my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 hours ago, the_bully_wee said: That's a pretty big whiff there, so fair play. You do realise that Dykes is primarily in the team to bring others into play, and that - despite offering less on the whole - it's been the same with McBurnie? He doesn't directly occupy central defenders as well, or work as hard out of possession, but the principle remains very much the same. You basically made my point yourself with the word "alternative" - he isn't a full replacement, and at no point have I claimed that he is. He merely brings us the closest skill-set to Dykes. Looks like you're the one who's all over the place, Dunning! On the second point, I think it's quite obvious that a guy who has turned in plenty of good performances in the EPL and outstanding ones in the Championship - and is among the youngest serious options we have in the position - is a better option than the likes of Shankland and Brophy, and furthermore Griffiths who isn't in any way fit. That's just on the base level, even before you consider intricacies like their attributes and general style of play. As I've gone to great lengths to try and make clear, I'm not even a fan of McBurnie and I would be thrilled if any of the aforementioned trio (or anyone else) was a better option for us; it would mean that our squad had become stronger. As it is, McBurnie is our second-best striker. Not only is that my view, but one that Steve Clarke shares too! I think you have said its the view of Steve Clark enough times now. The point of the forum is to debate the team. If Steve Clark from next game on regards Brophy as his 2nd choice striker does your opinion immediately change and you then think Brophy is the next best? Mcburnie isn't bringing others into the play, mcburnie isn't holding the ball up well. We can go with a different type of forward and still play the same formation. Mcburnie hasn't been turning in good performances in the epl. Time for mcburnie to get in the bin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyDD Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I was convinced it was going to click for McBurnie yesterday, but it just didn't. He played probably his best 45 mins for Scotland in the first half, but bungled a golden chance by hesitating and taking an extra touch, allowing a recovery block. He had to hit it earlier. The prevailing comment is 'he's needing confidence, he's low on confidence, that's the sign of a striker low on confidence'; well he had stuck a penalty away in a shoot-out in the play-off final that cemented qualification for a major tournament. How is he not BURSTING with confidence on the back of that? How was he not thinking 'there it goes, took my goal, I'm burying the next chance I get'. How is he not confident enough to hit that early? If he wasn't confident on the back of that, I'm not sure what more can be done about it. He could hardly have asked for a better chance; score a penalty in the shoot out, start the next game, get a clear and obvious chance to score... ... Still blows it. Frustrating beyond belief because that was a perfect scenario. Maybe it isn't about confidence, given he wasn't showing anything in games last season when his club form was decent. Maybe it's just about quality in front of goal, composure in front of goal. Ability in front of goal. It is looking very much like we need a different back up plan when Dykes is injured, suspended or needs subbed off. We cannot swap him for McBurnie and leave it at that, because the gulf in the capacity to fill the role of focal point/man to hit/bring the others into the game is so vast. Perhaps better to, in such circumstances, change the approach more significantly. The drop off from Dykes doing it to McBurnie trying to do it has been quite quite staggering. How many more times do we try and see if he can do it before we decide, okay, he just can't do that? We saw the same thing pre-Dykes. The difference between Scotland's ball retention, creativity and territory when Steven Naismith was on the park away to Cyprus to that when McBurnie replaced him was stark, too. I'm really not sure what it is he is good at, for Scotland. He was okay at link up first half yesterday, but I wouldn't go as far as to say he was good at it. Dykes is good at it. He's not good in front of goal, it would seem. He's not good at the press. He's not good at running the channels. What is he actually good at? Slagging Michael Stewart on twitter aside. Looks for all the world that Clarke will persevere, so here's hoping he comes off the bench and bags one on Wednesday. Dykes is surely going to reclaim the starting berth now that he is back and now that we are in danger of buggering up the group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bully_wee Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said: I think you have said its the view of Steve Clark enough times now. The point of the forum is to debate the team. If Steve Clark from next game on regards Brophy as his 2nd choice striker does your opinion immediately change and you then think Brophy is the next best? Mcburnie isn't bringing others into the play, mcburnie isn't holding the ball up well. We can go with a different type of forward and still play the same formation. Mcburnie hasn't been turning in good performances in the epl. Time for mcburnie to get in the bin. There is a quite marked difference between debating the team and lambasting an individual player without then providing alternatives which have at least some logical foundation. I think Steve Clarke is more qualified than anyone to decide who is the second best striker, on form, overall ability and suitability for the system. At the moment, that player is McBurnie and maybe his (and my) opinion will change if the likes of Brophy improve massively or show themselves as able to perform the role Clarke wants them to. The reason we've done so well in our recent games is purely consistency; changing the role the number nine plays by bringing in someone who plays on the shoulder (at Scottish Premiership level, no less) compromises that. It's quite interesting that *checks notes* BingMcCrosby and others of P&B don't think McBurnie is bringing others into play and holding the ball up well, and yet Clarke does. Funny, that. It's almost like we should trust the guy's judgement, based on how all of his decisions have worked out so far. Is this McBurnie who hasn't played well in the PL the same one who was ninth-placed Sheffield's most effective attacking player last season, and the second-most aerially potent striker in the PL? The grass is always greener for Scotland fans; except, it isn't actually. McBurnie is currently our second best, and that's pretty much that. That doesn't mean he's brilliant - far from it. Bring on the next contender! Edited November 16, 2020 by the_bully_wee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) Just now, the_bully_wee said: There is a quite marked difference between debating the team and lambasting an individual player without then providing alternatives which have at least some logical foundation. I think Steve Clarke is more qualified than anyone to decide who is the second best striker, on form, overall ability and suitability for the system. At the moment, that player is McBurnie and maybe his (and my) opinion will change if the likes of Brophy improve massively or show themselves as able to perform the role Clarke wants them to. The reason we've done so well in our recent games is purely consistency; changing the role the number nine plays by bringing in someone who plays on the shoulder (at Scottish Premiership level, no less) compromises that. It's quite interesting that *checks notes* BingMcCrosby and others of P&B don't think McBurnie is bringing others into play and holding the ball up well, and yet Clarke does. Funny, that. It's almost like we should trust the guy's judgement, based on how all of his decisions have worked out so far. Is this McBurnie who hasn't played well in the PL the same one who was ninth-placed Sheffield's most effective attacking player last season, and the second-most aerially potent striker in the PL? The grass is always greener for Scotland fans; except, it isn't actually. McBurnie is currently our second best, and that's pretty much that. That doesn't mean he's brilliant - far from it. Bring on the next contender! Its got nothing to do with the attitude of Scotland fans. Teams threads from. Albion rovers to the old firm will be debating their selections. And criticising certain players. If your against this, I would suggest this is the wrong place for you. How many has McBurnie scored this season? Also I think its ridiculous to think that because a player plays in the spl he can't possibly be better than mcburnie. Up until a coupe of months ago dykes was an spl player, and he's now making mcburnie look second rate. Also can I just clarify, you never answered. If clarke starts say Shankland ahead of both mcburnie and dykes in the next game. Would you agree with this, just because Steve Clarke did it? Edited November 16, 2020 by BingMcCrosby 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 I hope Stevie May and Tony Watt can regain their peak form -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 Just now, ewan14 said: I hope Stevie May and Tony Watt can regain their peak form Actively wanting a Saint Johnstone player to be capped? Scum, subhuman scum. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Tammy 1297 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) McBurnie kept getting himself in good areas to score,if he can keep doing that he will score Brian McClair was a top player but not prolific either took playing in a finals for him to bag his first goal I like how he came through all the levels to play for us as well We haven't really got a lot of options apart from Kevin Nesbett anyway Who unlike Grant and Adams won't turn down his chance I hope McBurnie turns it around for us And shows why he has done well down south in championship Maybe though we shouldn't always be picking him out If there is a chance to shoot take it themselves And he can follow it in on the rebound if needed to What got me though is how he doesn't gamble on far post or near post Was times were he could and he was so static Good strikers are always gambling in those kind of situations Edited November 16, 2020 by Tartan Tammy 1297 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Simao Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, gannonball said: Actively wanting a Saint Johnstone player to be capped? Scum, subhuman scum. We're so inferior in quality to the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen right enough. And that's not me saying May should be called up because he shouldn't, but Jason Kerr could be a shout in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tartan Tammy 1297 said: We haven't really got a lot of options apart from Kevin Nesbett anyway Who unlike Grant and Adams won't turn down his chance Kevin Nesbett cannot play for anyone else Grant and Adams can , big difference Dryhorse -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Miguel Simao said: We're so inferior in quality to the likes of Motherwell, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen right enough. And that's not me saying May should be called up because he shouldn't, but Jason Kerr could be a shout in the future. Kerr has got mentions for the squad in the past. Fingers crossed It would be good to have a right footeod back up for Scott McTominay If May regained his form from his previous time at St. J. he should be called up Edited November 16, 2020 by ewan14 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro Sham Bo Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 It's Nisbet. N-I-S-B-E-T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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