Scuzz Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 It has been revoked. It's the correct decision too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Macguire Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Scuzz said: It has been revoked. It's the correct decision too. Agreed correct decision. The whole reason for allowing clubs to withdraw was due to the financial uncertainty created by having to play behind closed doors. With the government pay outs that uncertainty has been removed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted December 22, 2020 Author Share Posted December 22, 2020 Take it the plan is back to 16 for 2021-22? Since it's looking like having consequences for the EoSFL having to adjust with VoL and Edinburgh University in the current bottom two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scuzz said: It has been revoked. It's the correct decision too. The compensation coming the way of the bottom dwellers probably gives them a financial boost compared to non-pandemic conditions, so would have been ludicrous to do otherwise. 13 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said: These persistent arguments about promotion to the Lowland League are getting us nowhere. In 10 years time I expect the leagues at tiers 5, 6 and 7 will all look totally different and hopefully clubs will be at the levels that match their ability and ambition. The real challenge for tiers 5 and below is getting the League 2 ( tier4) sides to accept the pyramid. Agree this issue is probably no more than a temporary (five to ten years tops) irritant until we get to a point where most LL clubs are likely to want relegation to be easier to bounce back from than it is now in case it ever happens to them. If there's one thing we learned from the reconstruction talks after the SPFL's 2019-20 season ended abruptly, it is that getting any package of reconstruction changes through the SPFL's voting system is close to impossible. In some glass half empty sort of ways that was a good thing as it meant that the League Two clubs were thwarted in their attempts to close the trapdoor, but the flipside in glass half full sort of ways is that the playoff format is probably going to be around for the forseeable future. Edited December 22, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 9 hours ago, It's Me said: I heard earlier that this clause has now been removed by the SLFL. Heard that last night too. Makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 It's time for the Pyramid Working Group (Lowland section) to reconvene and sort out this mess once and for all. If the LL. EoS, SoS and WoS leagues could agree to a plan for promotions and relegations between them that would help the Lowland League in their negotiations with the SFA and the SPFL for automatic promotion for LL/HL play-off winners. However, the current position of the LL - giving clubs an opportunity to no longer be part of the current season at such a late stage whilst still claiming 33k - is a mess which does no good to the league or the Pyramid. It needs sorting! The obvious way out of this, and what I think will eventually happen, is the creation of a Lowland League East and West at Tier 6, administered by the LL. This allows the SoS to be pushed down a little bit closer to their actual level without having to lose face, and also ensures that an ambitious club in that league (eg Threave) has the choice of progressing to a higher level and testing themselves against better clubs. It also provides a bit of an extra buffer for the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie, who would obviously suffer massively from the enormous drop from the LL to the SoS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 7 hours ago, craigkillie said: The obvious way out of this, and what I think will eventually happen, is the creation of a Lowland League East and West at Tier 6, administered by the LL. This allows the SoS to be pushed down a little bit closer to their actual level without having to lose face, and also ensures that an ambitious club in that league (eg Threave o has the choice of progressing to a higher level and testing themselves against better clubs. It also provides a bit of an extra buffer for the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie, who would obviously suffer massively from the enormous drop from the LL to the SoS. They already have an extra buffer though as they would prob win the SoSFL with ease and are practically guaranteed a shot of a quick return to the LL via a play off. I dont think they (Threave,Gretna,Dalbeattie or any other ambitious SoSFL club) would fancy playing in a LL East or West ? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 They already have an extra buffer though as they would prob win the SoSFL with ease and are practically guaranteed a shot of a quick return to the LL via a play off. I dont think they (Threave,Gretna,Dalbeattie or any other ambitious SoSFL club) would fancy playing in a LL East or West ? This is not what a buffer is. If Gretna were relegated right now they would go from playing the likes of Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Berwick and East Stirlingshire to Stranraer Reserves and Heston Rovers. That would surely represent a massive drop in income, and also make it much more difficult to attract players. The fact they'd win that league at a canter doesn't help with that in any way.Having an actual proper sixth tier quality league to fall into would be preferable to that - you'd instead be taking on the cream of the WoS teams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: This is not what a buffer is. If Gretna were relegated right now they would go from playing the likes of Kelty, Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness, Berwick and East Stirlingshire to Stranraer Reserves and Heston Rovers. That would surely represent a massive drop in income, and also make it much more difficult to attract players. The fact they'd win that league at a canter doesn't help with that in any way. Having an actual proper sixth tier quality league to fall into would be preferable to that - you'd instead be taking on the cream of the WoS teams. Or East Gretna and Dalbeattie both have previous EoSFL experience of course. Massive drop in income or play local teams wi a lot less travelling off the park every week and have a play off shot of going straight back to LL,youd need to ask anybody associated wi them clubs that what they'd prefer I suppose. Sadly not many Gretna or Dalbeattie fans contribute on here anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 I'd be surprised if either of those clubs chose the SoS to drop into. The new WoS Premier is probably a better environment to play in long term rather than the SoS which may eventually become a lower level in the west part of the pyramid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 38 minutes ago, Burnieman said: I'd be surprised if either of those clubs chose the SoS to drop into. The new WoS Premier is probably a better environment to play in long term rather than the SoS which may eventually become a lower level in the west part of the pyramid. The fact those teams can pick/choose which league to go into is a problem in itself. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: The fact those teams can pick/choose which league to go into is a problem in itself. We dont actually know that to be the case. Its all 4 leagues involved that decide who goes where. I'd imagine BSC Glasgow are still getting relegated to the EoSFL for the time being for instance. Not that they have to worry about that anytime soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Interesting to see what happens to the SOS. The WoS joining the pyramid and providing a league for the likes of Caley Braves, Cumbernauld etc. to drop to and the possibility that Gretna and Dalbeattie might choose the WoS (if they get an option) means they really have very few sources (if any) of new clubs. The old Dumfries amateur clubs have joined already and that league is now gone. They're down to just 14 clubs and two of them are reserves. The bigger issue for me is that having the SoS at tier 6 makes opening up the Lowland League to more relegation spots a little more complicated. If there was only the EoS/WoS at tier 6 then the Lowland League could easily open it up to two automatic relegation spots but having the SoS there adds in the complication of playoffs. 3 teams playing off for 2 promotion places potentially? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, craigkillie said: The obvious way out of this, and what I think will eventually happen, is the creation of a Lowland League East and West at Tier 6, administered by the LL. This allows the SoS to be pushed down a little bit closer to their actual level without having to lose face, and also ensures that an ambitious club in that league (eg Threave) has the choice of progressing to a higher level and testing themselves against better clubs. It also provides a bit of an extra buffer for the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie, who would obviously suffer massively from the enormous drop from the LL to the SoS. All that hassle just so the SOS don't lose face by getting moved down to their actual level of tier 7 or 8? Seems a bit pointless when a LL West would surely just be the current WOS Premier with Dalbeattie or Gretna once they get relegated. Threave recently lost to a WOS club who were effectively in the 9th tier last season. They are never going to play in tier 5 again, and they probably wouldn't do much better than Bonnyton at WOS Premier level just now. Remove the SOS from tier 6 but give them a play-off into WOS if they want. 26 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: We dont actually know that to be the case. Its all 4 leagues involved that decide who goes where. I'd imagine BSC Glasgow are still getting relegated to the EoSFL for the time being for instance. Not that they have to worry about that anytime soon. Needs another email to the LL to find out whether anyone has been assigned the WOS if relegated... Edited January 2, 2021 by Ginaro 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, stanley said: The bigger issue for me is that having the SoS at tier 6 makes opening up the Lowland League to more relegation spots a little more complicated. If there was only the EoS/WoS at tier 6 then the Lowland League could easily open it up to two automatic relegation spots but having the SoS there adds in the complication of playoffs. 3 teams playing off for 2 promotion places potentially? The current LL playoff will work for two promotion spots. As long as Stranraer reserves are in the South there will be the occasional time it would automatic promotion for West & East. The rest of the time West & East should get the better of any licensed South champion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said: We dont actually know that to be the case. Its all 4 leagues involved that decide who goes where. I'd imagine BSC Glasgow are still getting relegated to the EoSFL for the time being for instance. Not that they have to worry about that anytime soon. But this in itself is a nonsense. There should be a clear demarcation between the leagues, in the same way that there is for the Highland and Lowland Leagues. You can't have Gretna, a club very much in the south of Scotland, being allowed to play in a league which is supposed to be for clubs in the east of the country. They could be travelling up as far as Tayport and Perth, passing through SoS and WoS territory to get there. That might have been OK in the pre-pyramid days when there wasn't a joined up structure and they had to move to play in a higher quality league, but nowadays we should have a better system than that in place. At the moment at Tier 6 we have two very strong leagues and one extremely poor one that is basically added on as an afterthought. There is also already substantial geographical overlap between these leagues. The obvious solution to resolving that is to create an all-encompassing West league which includes Dumfries and Galloway in parallel to an East league on the other side of the country. This is what should have been done this summer when the WoS was set up, but it's not too late to fix it now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Each league covers a specific area. LL clubs don't choose where to go - they drop to a specific league defined accordingly. Dalbeattie, Gretna = SOSL... Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld, EK = WOSL... rest = EOSL. Suppose if BSCG ever move back to Strathclyde they'd become WOSL too. Edited January 2, 2021 by HibeeJibee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Each league covers a specific area. LL clubs don't choose where to go - they drop to a specific league defined accordingly. Has that changed Hibee? I’m sure a few seasons ago someone (an official) told me that clubs had to nominate which league they would go to at the beginning of the season. I’m sure it was Gretna we were talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 On 20/12/2020 at 22:51, FairWeatherFan said: Nope. A club withdraws has their record wiped from the league. They can't be classed as bottom any longer. So hypothetically. VoL could play the entire season without gaining a single point and then the day before their final game and say "Lol, we're withdrawing" to avoid relegation? Either the LL have an utterly ludicrous set of rules or that simply isn't true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Ginaro said: All that hassle just so the SOS don't lose face by getting moved down to their actual level of tier 7 or 8? It's bizarre that the SoSL see being moved down the pyramid as losing face but not the fact that if they'd awarded the championship last season, it would have been won by Stranraer Reserves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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