Jump to content

Scottish Cup saved!


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Tough, it should not be allowed. Perhaps after a few attempts then there is a case to move it to get it played, but to move games before even an attempt is made just makes a mockery of the competition and the licence process.

Fortunately you aren't running things and people that do understand this is not a normal season. Which is the only reason this is being allowed to happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

Fortunately you aren't running things and people that do understand this is not a normal season. Which is the only reason this is being allowed to happen.

Yes but we're all allowed an opinion.  I wouldn't want anyone on here running things, but I suspect some who comment are.

It seems anything goes at the moment.  I understand relaxing rules but allowing matches to be moved before even an attempt to play it at your registered ground shouldn't have been allowed, it devalues this stage of the competition in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

Yes but we're all allowed an opinion.  I wouldn't want anyone on here running things, but I suspect some who comment are.

It seems anything goes at the moment.  I understand relaxing rules but allowing matches to be moved before even an attempt to play it at your registered ground shouldn't have been allowed, it devalues this stage of the competition in my opinion.

No fans devalues the competition. Forcing part-time players to drop whatever on days notice devalues the competition. Especially when they're doing 4+ hour round trips. That devalues the competition. The potential to postpone multiple league fixtures to ensure the Scottish Cup gets played that devalues the competition, and is the same stick people would beat the Junior Cup with all the time.

LTHV, Dundonald, HoB, Coldstream, Bonnyrigg, Gretna, Vale of Leithen, Formartine all licenced clubs and all had games called off this weekend from what I can see. In most of those cases you can look at the forecast and the weather's not getting any better Boxing Day weekend. Clubs are being proactive in the middle of a pandemic to make sure the efforts of all those involved, the players, refs, committees, volunteers, and fans aren't going to waste.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Tough, it should not be allowed. Perhaps after a few attempts then there is a case to move it to get it played, but to move games before even an attempt is made just makes a mockery of the competition and the licence process.

They're giving the advantage to Banks o' Dee whose home ground is artificial. A noble gesture to get through the fixtures imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

No fans devalues the competition. Forcing part-time players to drop whatever on days notice devalues the competition. Especially when they're doing 4+ hour round trips. That devalues the competition. The potential to postpone multiple league fixtures to ensure the Scottish Cup gets played that devalues the competition, and is the same stick people would beat the Junior Cup with all the time.

LTHV, Dundonald, HoB, Coldstream, Bonnyrigg, Gretna, Vale of Leithen, Formartine all licenced clubs and all had games called off this weekend from what I can see. In most of those cases you can look at the forecast and the weather's not getting any better Boxing Day weekend. Clubs are being proactive in the middle of a pandemic to make sure the efforts of all those involved, the players, refs, committees, volunteers, and fans aren't going to waste.

So let's just devalue it a little more by moving matches to a neutral venue without any attempt to get the game played on the registered and licenced home ground, that's the biggest devaluation of the lot.

As for Boxing Day, that's 6 days off, not even Michael Fish could give you anything resembling an accurate forecast that far in advance, and games can be moved to one or two days later as well if more time is required. However just looking at the forecaste for Edinburgh, it appears pretty dry for the coming week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

The point is you have a licenced home ground, play on it otherwise WTF is a licence for. They haven't even attempted to play the game there but are already moving it.

As it’s been repeatedly said a license isn’t just about the ground and that still holds true now.  However it was arguably the most important part.  Now with no fans it wouldn’t seem to be the least important aspect.

30 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Yes but we're all allowed an opinion.  I wouldn't want anyone on here running things, but I suspect some who comment are.

It seems anything goes at the moment.  I understand relaxing rules but allowing matches to be moved before even an attempt to play it at your registered ground shouldn't have been allowed, it devalues this stage of the competition in my opinion.

From the outside(at this stage) I don’t think it makes any difference.   A full small non-league ground vs a near empty spfl ground with no one about is a hugely detrimental.  An empty spfl ground and an empty non-league ground, meh not much to care about. 

Edited by parsforlife
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

They're giving the advantage to Banks o' Dee whose home ground is artificial. A noble gesture to get through the fixtures imo.

LTHV have played at Livingston a lot more than Banks O'Dee will have, they won't see that as any excuse. You don't see the same complaints that no plastic pitch is the same, so it's not quite the same advantage anyway.

4 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

So let's just devalue it a little more by moving matches to a neutral venue without any attempt to get the game played on the registered and licenced home ground, that's the biggest devaluation of the lot.

As for Boxing Day, that's 6 days off, not even Michael Fish could give you anything resembling an accurate forecast that far in advance, and games can be moved to one or two days later as well if more time is required. However just looking at the forecaste for Edinburgh, it appears pretty dry for the coming week.

You consider it the biggest devaluation of the lot, I have it very far down the list.

Must be great having a plastic pitch so you don't have to worry about all the hassle people going through getting games played on grass at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

As it’s been repeatedly said a license isn’t just about thee ground and that still holds true now.  However it was arguably the most important part.  Now with no fans it wouldn’t seem to be the least important aspect.

From the outside(at this stage) I don’t think it makes any difference.   A full small non-league ground vs a near empty spfl ground with no one about is a hugely detrimental.  An empty spfl ground and an empty non-league ground, meh not much to care about. 

I think the difference in Queens Park rolling up to Moorside Park, Dundonald instead of the - for non-league level - refined environment of 4G Central Park, Kelty makes a huge difference.  The same with Saughton Enclosure v Almondvale, fans or no fans.   As I said, moving games is an option should there be several failed attempts at playing a game, but not to even try is a loophole that really shouldn't have been allowed even in this unusual season.  However, it is what it is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, FairWeatherFan said:

Must be great having a plastic pitch so you don't have to worry about all the hassle people going through getting games played on grass at the moment.

What has that got to do with what is being discussed? behave yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I think the difference in Queens Park rolling up to Moorside Park, Dundonald instead of the - for non-league level - refined environment of 4G Central Park, Kelty makes a huge difference.  The same with Saughton Enclosure v Almondvale, fans or no fans.   As I said, moving games is an option should there be several failed attempts at playing a game, but not to even try is a loophole that really shouldn't have been allowed even in this unusual season.  However, it is what it is.

On the playing front It might make a difference but IMO not particularly significant one.  From media/public perspective it’s completely insignificant.   Most outlets won’t even note it being played away from the normal home ground.   Had fans been in I’d feel very different.

it should be noted even in the spfl unthinkable things last season are occurring this year.  Clubs and competitions need to be very adaptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Fortunately you aren't running things and people that do understand this is not a normal season. Which is the only reason this is being allowed to happen.

Haven't LTHV got previous for this though? 

I could be wrong but I'm sure theyve played ties away from Saughton before?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Haven't LTHV got previous for this though? 

I could be wrong but I'm sure theyve played ties away from Saughton before?

Oddly enough only 4 of their last 8 home Scottish Cup ties will actually have been at Saughton.

Huntly in 2016 (at Spartans) and Wigtown & Bladnoch in 2019 (at Broxburn) were also moved due to the pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Haven't LTHV got previous for this though? 

I could be wrong but I'm sure theyve played ties away from Saughton before?

Last season they played their Preliminary round 1 game at Broxburn, after it was postponed the previous Saturday.

The rules* are that "A Home Club shall notify the Board in the event that it considers that its Registered Ground is unsuitable, for whatever reason, for the playing of a Match.......In the event that the Board makes a determination that a Registered Ground is unsuitable for the playing of a Match, then the Match in question shall be played at such alternative Registered Ground as is determined by the Board."  - so LTHV aren't doing anything wrong.

* 10.4 in last season's rules unless they've changed https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5364/scottish-cup-rules-for-2019-20.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

So let's just devalue it a little more by moving matches to a neutral venue without any attempt to get the game played on the registered and licenced home ground, that's the biggest devaluation of the lot.

As for Boxing Day, that's 6 days off, not even Michael Fish could give you anything resembling an accurate forecast that far in advance, and games can be moved to one or two days later as well if more time is required. However just looking at the forecaste for Edinburgh, it appears pretty dry for the coming week.

How is this being devalued. I don’t get it? Surely it is LTHVs choice if they want to switch a venue and forfeit home advantage. More chance of losing especially as Saughton is grass and Livingston ain’t. I hope LSVT win! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Last season they played their Preliminary round 1 game at Broxburn, after it was postponed the previous Saturday.

The rules* are that "A Home Club shall notify the Board in the event that it considers that its Registered Ground is unsuitable, for whatever reason, for the playing of a Match.......In the event that the Board makes a determination that a Registered Ground is unsuitable for the playing of a Match, then the Match in question shall be played at such alternative Registered Ground as is determined by the Board."  - so LTHV aren't doing anything wrong.

* 10.4 in last season's rules unless they've changed https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5364/scottish-cup-rules-for-2019-20.pdf

I never said they were doing wrong I just thought they had previous of moving games away from Saughton when a reason given for this season was that it was an exceptional season. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

The point is you have a licenced home ground, play on it otherwise WTF is a licence for. They haven't even attempted to play the game there but are already moving it.

And? You seem very exercised about it but don’t really have a valid reason, unless I am missing something. Probably LTHV has more chance than losing now they are not playing at home, but surely that is there chance to take if this is a rule within the confines of the SFA cup?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Burnieman said:

What has that got to do with what is being discussed? behave yourself.

I think your perspective is shaped by Blackburn having a plastic pitch which means getting games on 99% of the time wind, rain, or shine. Seems kind of relevant.

5 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

Haven't LTHV got previous for this though? 

I could be wrong but I'm sure theyve played ties away from Saughton before?

Crux of the matter here seems to be a licenced club moving a game before even attempting it at their home ground. Since LTHV have only been licenced since 2018 it limits things to the example above where they moved a 2nd attempt to Broxburn. If i'm remembering right the original postponement was caused by Edinburgh Leisure cutting the grass aka butchering the pitch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Tough, it should not be allowed. Perhaps after a few attempts then there is a case to move it to get it played, but to move games before even an attempt is made just makes a mockery of the competition and the licence process.

The issue seems to boil down to pitches which, especially at this time of the year, have drainage problems. This is a long-standing problem. Plastic helps but, elsewhere, improvements to pitches is needed and some clubs used last summer to do a lot of work on the drainage.  That will help, although, it can take a few seasons to show the benefits.

Having increased certainty that games will be played on a more regular basis would help clubs cash-flow as they lose revenue when games are called off.

More investment in drainage/Plastic will help. The next question is - where does the money come from to fund this work?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In a literally unique season, with a very compressed schedule and all sorts of pressures on part-time players at home and work, a club gives up home advantage and incurs higher costs, even though their income is hugely curtailed already, to make sure a cup tie will go ahead as scheduled and that an opponent with a long journey can plan in confidence.

Only a fundamentalist could find fault in that.

I suppose what's being sought here is for LTHV to forfeit the tie. But their pitch is good enough to entry level in a normal year, it's just that this year, postponements are a much bigger problem than usual. If ever there was a time for pragmatism and a bit of give-and-take, it's now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Crux of the matter here seems to be a licenced club moving a game before even attempting it at their home ground. Since LTHV have only been licenced since 2018 it limits things to the example above where they moved a 2nd attempt to Broxburn. If i'm remembering right the original postponement was caused by Edinburgh Leisure cutting the grass aka butchering the pitch.

There is no relevance with Blackburn at all, no need to bring them into the discussion.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...