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git-intae-thum

Next SNP leader

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On 14/10/2020 at 01:33, git-intae-thum said:

Seems a reasonable enough question, given the current incumbent is struggling.

The unionist press have there powder dry and are ready to unleash the inevitable barrage, should the FM fail to do the honourable thing before the SP elections.

As above..... Who will the replacement be....and therefore who likely will be our first minister.

Unlike the previous first minister the incumbent has totally failed to nurture a successor and has carefully sidelined or excluded any potential political rivals.

Good for Mr and Mrs Murrell. Shite for independence!!!!

Therefore, when the fm has to face the inevitable, where does that leave us?

Who is next?

I was pondering this the other day. This COVID-19 saga is dragging on and some folk will get pissed off at being told what they can and cannot do. Folk whose businesses and livelihoods have been affected will be annoyed. Every government, or at least leader, only carries public goodwill for a certain time before they have reached a tipping point.

There’s also the fallout from the Salmond case, which is being painted as a stitch up and the media don’t seem to have to look too far to find questionable decisions from senior civil servants and not much separation between them and senior political figures. However, that will influence far fewer voters than the COVID-19 stuff.

There’s also the Brexit thing which is still to play out.

I’m not sure who the next one will be but being a leader through these times must be pretty stressful. There’s no obvious choice. The SNP seemed to be planning for Derek MacKay taking over until he was exposed for grooming a schoolboy. From memory Swinney had a shot and wasn’t very good. Who else is there? You would have thought there would at least be discussions among SNP ranks as to who the successor is just in case there’s a resignation, health issue, etc.

The SNP MSPs are possibly a bit like Labour were in the ‘90s. In with the bricks and immovable but they have a lot of filler in their ranks. Maybe there are loads of talented potential leaders among them but they aren’t obvious to me. 
 

Edited by Scary Bear

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On 17/10/2020 at 00:48, git-intae-thum said:

 "yer da" 🤣 Absolute cringe patter. 

The reality is we have yet to see any plan that is going to get us independent. After 6 years of waiting!!!

That is the reality.

 

This is it for me too. Wee Nic is treading water. The main purpose of the SNP is to gain independence for Scotland, but even the SNP Vision on their website doesn’t specifically mention the I word. Anyone who wants to actually see independence in their lifetime will be getting fidgety at her approach. 

Wee Nic: Let us hold a second referendum!

Tories: Naw.

The Tories - especially this strain of Tories - have no reason to grant us a second referendum. How does Wee Nic compel them? What are the other options?

Do we need to follow the Tory narrative of ‘once in a generation’ so wait until 2034 before the next one? What am I thinking! A Tory generation will be 30 years at least, so 2044. Great, I’ll be in my 70s still dutifully voting for the SNP for IndyRef2. 

7A328B0A-775F-42A2-8DA1-683FE96EE5B9.png

Edited by Scary Bear

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This is it for me too. Wee Nic is treading water. The main purpose of the SNP is to gain independence for Scotland, but even the SNP Vision on their website doesn’t specifically mention the I word. Anyone who wants to actually see independence in their lifetime will be getting fidgety at her approach. 

Wee Nic: Let us hold a second referendum!

Tories: Naw.

The Tories - especially this strain of Tories - have no reason to grant us a second referendum. How does Wee Nic compel them? What are the other options?

Do we need to follow the Tory narrative of ‘once in a generation’ so wait until 2034 before the next one? What am I thinking! A Tory generation will be 30 years at least, so 2044. Great, I’ll be in my 70s still dutifully voting for the SNP for IndyRef2. 

7A328B0A-775F-42A2-8DA1-683FE96EE5B9.thumb.png.bc436561e4d38147b75d53741a1851c6.png

See if you can answer the question that git-intae-thum still hasn't answered.

 

What should Plan B be?

 

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30 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

See if you can answer the question that git-intae-thum still hasn't answered.

 

What should Plan B be?

 

Whilst I think @Scary Bear‘s post was pish, what do you think plan B should be?

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I'm not sure it's him that's this latest zoomer - this Clach clown can hardly string a sentence together.
McSpreader was a seething illiterate mess as well tbf.

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Whilst I think [mention=2616]Scary Bear[/mention]‘s post was pish, what do you think plan B should be?
I think this will end up being dealt with by the Supreme Court - Joanna Cherry has suggested this herself:

https://www.scottishlegal.com/article/joanna-cherry-qc-suggests-lord-advocate-refer-independence-bill-to-supreme-court

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4 hours ago, thisal said:

For anyone logging in Sunday morning to catch up on Saturday nights posts, all I'll say is Bawwatchin and Stormzy.

Pardon? 

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23 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I think this will end up being dealt with by the Supreme Court - Joanna Cherry has suggested this herself:

https://www.scottishlegal.com/article/joanna-cherry-qc-suggests-lord-advocate-refer-independence-bill-to-supreme-court
 

My hot take on it fwiw is that Boris Johnson won't say no if there's an SNP landslide at next years election. I do however think he/they will try some jiggery pokery around the framing of the ref.

I certainly don't think that any 'Plan B' should be advertised giving the Tories a year or so to plan for it in order to appease a few numpties on the indy side.

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3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

See if you can answer the question that git-intae-thum still hasn't answered.

 

What should Plan B be?

 

The only other plan mentioned seems to be legal action to challenge whether Scotland can run a legal referendum/leave the UK without Westminster approval. If we recognise Scotland is a country then I’m not sure why that country should have to beg Westminster for the chance to leave the United Kingdom.

Obviously I only have to look to Spain to see what the state can so easily become, when they see their authority challenged, but how many times will Wee Nic re-heat her IndyRef2 speech only for it to get shut down by the various Tories who are in charge? Do we just need to wait until a better government appears down South?

I’m not sure what other plans there are, but I would have thought any options available should be exhausted. If it’s just a case of keep on voting and you never know then all but the hardcore will lose interest.

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1 hour ago, Londonwell said:

My hot take on it fwiw is that Boris Johnson won't say no if there's an SNP landslide at next years election. I do however think he/they will try some jiggery pokery around the framing of the ref.

I certainly don't think that any 'Plan B' should be advertised giving the Tories a year or so to plan for it in order to appease a few numpties on the indy side.

Why would he say Yes?

What does he have to gain from it?

Is there any legal reason for him to grant a referendum or will he just keep pedalling the ‘once in a generation’ patter?

 

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4 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Why would he say Yes?

What does he have to gain from it?

Is there any legal reason for him to grant a referendum or will he just keep pedalling the ‘once in a generation’ patter?

 

I mean I don’t have any steadfast answer for you tbh, as I said it’s my hot take but I just think it’s the politics of it and the dam will burst next year. Maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part, maybe not. 
 

But if you look at the language BJ has used on it, it’s already starting to soften ever so slightly and I am making an educated guess that they know it’s coming and are preparing for it. I’m more concerned about a stitch up out of the two scenarios.  
 

Btw, I can completely understand why people are anxious about it and telling the SNP to ‘get on with it’, ‘whaurs plan b’ etc. But people need to remember two things; Plan A is working at the moment in convincing people of the merits of Scottish Indy, so why change tact? And the pandemic, whilst probably beneficial to the SNP in showing contrasts of leadership, has thrown a spanner in the works of pretty much everything else. They’ve got to work through that. 

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10 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

Why would he say Yes?

What does he have to gain from it?

Is there any legal reason for him to grant a referendum or will he just keep pedalling the ‘once in a generation’ patter?

 

Who knows? He might need the SNP vote to a squash a Tory rebellion on something. He was quite willing to accept a border on the Irish Sea when it suited. And electorally neither the Tories nor Labour have any real motive for holding onto Scotland, especially with an increasingly dwindling vote. 

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25 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

I mean I don’t have any steadfast answer for you tbh, as I said it’s my hot take but I just think it’s the politics of it and the dam will burst next year. Maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part, maybe not. 
 

But if you look at the language BJ has used on it, it’s already starting to soften ever so slightly and I am making an educated guess that they know it’s coming and are preparing for it. I’m more concerned about a stitch up out of the two scenarios.  
 

Btw, I can completely understand why people are anxious about it and telling the SNP to ‘get on with it’, ‘whaurs plan b’ etc. But people need to remember two things; Plan A is working at the moment in convincing people of the merits of Scottish Indy, so why change tact? And the pandemic, whilst probably beneficial to the SNP in showing contrasts of leadership, has thrown a spanner in the works of pretty much everything else. They’ve got to work through that. 

This is just it, Boris can point to COVID-19 and then Brexit and then no doubt some other issue like the trashed economy after COVID-19 and then the next crisis. There will never be a good time for Independence in the eyes of the current Tory government. I can appreciate this train of thought as I’m fairly pragmatic about it, but I also see that putting it off forever is milk and honey to Unionists. When will there be a good time for it?

21 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Who knows? He might need the SNP vote to a squash a Tory rebellion on something. He was quite willing to accept a border on the Irish Sea when it suited. And electorally neither the Tories nor Labour have any real motive for holding onto Scotland, especially with an increasingly dwindling vote. 

What Tory rebellion is going to see his 80 seat majority threatened? Is granting the SNP an Independence referendum going to help his popularity with Tories? It seems unlikely he would take that option. I think he would be seen as weak if he let the union die.

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On 14/10/2020 at 01:33, git-intae-thum said:

Seems a reasonable enough question, given the current incumbent is struggling.

The unionist press have there powder dry and are ready to unleash the inevitable barrage, should the FM fail to do the honourable thing before the SP elections.

As above..... Who will the replacement be....and therefore who likely will be our first minister.

Unlike the previous first minister the incumbent has totally failed to nurture a successor and has carefully sidelined or excluded any potential political rivals.

Good for Mr and Mrs Murrell. Shite for independence!!!!

Therefore, when the fm has to face the inevitable, where does that leave us?

Who is next?

This thread seems to be moving a bit away from where it was intended to go.

Will Wee Nic just go on forever?

Who are the next likely candidates to be SNP leader?

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7 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

This is just it, Boris can point to COVID-19 and then Brexit and then no doubt some other issue like the trashed economy after COVID-19 and then the next crisis. There will never be a good time for Independence in the eyes of the current Tory government. I can appreciate this train of thought as I’m fairly pragmatic about it, but I also see that putting it off forever is milk and honey to Unionists. When will there be a good time for it?

Well tbf the SNP said they were putting plans in place to have a referendum this year before the pandemic hit and ended any of that. I don’t really see any evidence of the SNP dragging their feet on Indy unnecessarily.   

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5 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:
6 hours ago, welshbairn said:
McSpreader and Malky doing a fine job promoting independence here, great work lads!

I'm not sure it's him that's this latest zoomer - this Clach clown can hardly string a sentence together.

Watch where you throw your toys, you could hit someone.

Amazing how anyone who fails to agree with is a zoomer or a clown.

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

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6 minutes ago, Merkincher Clach & County said:

Amazing how anyone who fails to agree with is a zoomer or a clown.

🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

 

3 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:
5 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:
I'm not sure it's him that's this latest zoomer - this Clach clown can hardly string a sentence together.

McSpreader was a seething illiterate mess as well tbf.

MUH UNION (not that bad forrin one the one with THIS flag!!!!)

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