Ayr United v Queen of the South - multi club forum match thread

[Guest Flash]

9 minutes ago, callum-ayr said:

I thought the penalty was a bit 50/50 in terms of pulling each other, but can see why it’s given. Thought we looked really good from set pieces. Considering we were missing our 2 creative players, we still had a few chances and Moffat unlucky not to make it 100. Keeper had a cracking game as well.

Would like to see another striker and attacking midfielder in for the Inverness game and I’ll be happy with the squad assembled. 

Steady on. I know our defending was poor but you didn’t have 99 chances.

[Superhursty7]

You think Buchanan doesn't score there if he isn't held?

Maybe he does but I would not say it's clear goal scoring opportunity hes not running through on goal and pulled down or it's been handled on the line he's still got a lot to do to score from there, personally I don't really agree with the double punishment of a pen and red card

 

[UpInTheAyr]

Lets put all this discussion aside and join together in having a good laugh at the state of this

 

 

[die hard doonhamer]

3 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

Maybe he does but I would not say it's clear goal scoring opportunity hes not running through on goal and pulled down or it's been handled on the line he's still got a lot to do to score from there, personally I don't really agree with the double punishment of a pen and red card

 

He's 2 yards from an unguarded part of the net. @RandomGuy. would tell us the xG is about as high as it gets with that chance.

Whether you personally agree or not, once that penalty is given it has to be a red card. There are no other correct interpretations of the laws of the game.

[yorkshirepud]

I thought the first penalty was a red card on first viewing and haven't seen anything to change my mind. Ayr dodged a bullet there. 2nd one is a great call as it is a clear dive. McCowan was an idiot and needs to grow up.
Ayr need a few more options. Hard to believe they are light on bodies after only 4 games so McCowan's stupidity is harder to accept. Hopefully Kerr has a few loan moves in the pipeline to beef up the squad, otherwise the next few weeks could be quite tough. Felt sorry for Anderson as he was isolated for large chunks of the game, particularly in the second half so hard to judge him on that performance. Queens weren't as bad as many thought they would be and seemed well organised during open play though hilariously inept at set pieces. Think they will be fine this season if they can learn to defend crosses.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

3 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Lets put all this discussion aside and join together in having a good laugh at the state of this

 

 

That's about as funny as a Shakespeare comedy is. 

 

3 minutes ago, yorkshirepud said:

I thought the first penalty was a red card on first viewing and haven't seen anything to change my mind. Ayr dodged a bullet there. 2nd one is a great call as it is a clear dive. McCowan was an idiot and needs to grow up.
Ayr need a few more options. Hard to believe they are light on bodies after only 4 games so McCowan's stupidity is harder to accept. Hopefully Kerr has a few loan moves in the pipeline to beef up the squad, otherwise the next few weeks could be quite tough. Felt sorry for Anderson as he was isolated for large chunks of the game, particularly in the second half so hard to judge him on that performance. Queens weren't as bad as many thought they would be and seemed well organised during open play though hilariously inept at set pieces. Think they will be fine this season if they can learn to defend crosses.

We haven't been able to defend crosses for the last 2 or 3 seasons,  it's a prerequisite of us signing defenders. 

[19QOS19]

Maybe he does but I would not say it's clear goal scoring opportunity hes not running through on goal and pulled down or it's been handled on the line he's still got a lot to do to score from there, personally I don't really agree with the double punishment of a pen and red card  

I think it's clear as day he gets there to score - and it's a tap in for him. Your GK was excellent yesterday but even he wasn't making it to the back post. I don't agree with the penalty and red either which is why I think the new rule is pretty good. But in this instance the defender doesn't even look the road the ball is on and just brings Buchanan down. It's as clear a red as you'll see and I'm genuinely amazed folk are arguing otherwise.

The same thing happened with the same outcome last time for us at Somerset as well funnily enough.

Lets put all this discussion aside and join together in having a good laugh at the state of this
 
 

We've had to watch this for 2 years. I've posted similar pics to your one there on our own thread. There is literally nothing you can add that will compound our misery here. It's truly appalling from us and has been for years. It was particularly galling when we had a former International quality defender leading us.

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

Maybe he does but I would not say it's clear goal scoring opportunity hes not running through on goal and pulled down or it's been handled on the line he's still got a lot to do to score from there

 

Well this is remarkable.

You're right.  He's not running through on goal with a 'keeper to squeeze it past.  Instead, he's one yard out.  He has literally as little to do as possible, but for the presence of the guy who wrestles him to the ground.

[Skyline Drifter]

15 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

16 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

100% pen 100% not a red card

You think Buchanan doesn't score there if he isn't held?

Irrelevant whether he would or wouldnt. It only needs to be a clear goalscoring opportunity, which 3 yards from an unguarded net it clearly was.

12 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

I think Buchanan has been watching Sergio Ramos a bit too much. He's trying to be subtle about it but he is pulling/pushing.

Also, he has a reputation (rightly or wrongly) which I expect played on McLean for making the decision tbh.

Steven McLean gave a foul. Everything else is irrelvant deflection. If he thinks Buchanan is fouling he is at liberty to give Ayr a free kick.

11 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

Maybe he does but I would not say it's clear goal scoring opportunity hes not running through on goal and pulled down or it's been handled on the line he's still got a lot to do to score from there, personally I don't really agree with the double punishment of a pen and red card

 

What you or indeed Steven McLean think of the rule is irrelevant though. He isnt at liberty to change the rules mid match. He gives a penalty. Buchanan is inside the 6 yard box waiting to tap into the net. The ONLY grounds for not giving a red are to claim Baird is making a genuine attempt to get the ball. Which is a comedic claim. He isnt even looking in the direction of the ball as he drags his opponent down. I bet good money the referee observer will have marked him down for that. 

[No_Problemo]

Unfortunately if it’s a penalty then it’s a red card. Genuinely no idea what Baird is doing - he is goal side so is able to clear the ball. 

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Steven McLean gave a foul. Everything else is irrelvant deflection. If he thinks Buchanan is fouling he is at liberty to give Ayr a free kick.

Personally I think Buchanan is using his arms you see it all the time. I cant recall one being a straight red and yet the Queens fans are clamouring for it. A penalty was fair in my view.

Also, fwiw some of you seem to be suggesting an attacker can use his arms and a defender can't? That's not even remotely correct.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 minute ago, No_Problemo said:

Unfortunately if it’s a penalty then it’s a red card. Genuinely no idea what Baird is doing - he is goal side so is able to clear the ball. 

This. If people want to argue that Buchanan started the pulling and dragged Baird on to him they can. Thats fine. The notion that a penalty but no red card is the correct outcome is just a refusal to understand the rules as they currently stand. I literally have no idea how a qualified referee found a reason to do so.

[BukyOHare]

If Steven McLean hasn't taken the opportunity to give a penalty and red card against us then maybe luck's been on our side, especially against one of our bogey teams. 

Anyway enough of this post match debating sh!te, anybody know what Maybole's best fast food outlet is? 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Personally I think Buchanan is using his arms you see it all the time. I cant recall one being a straight red and yet the Queens fans are clamouring for it. A penalty was fair in my view.

Also, fwiw some of you seem to be suggesting an attacker can use his arms and a defender can't? That's not even remotely correct.

I do not understand what you are arguing here. You cant claim "a penalty was fair". You can claim Buchanan was fouling first / more if you want and Ayr should get the free kick. You simply cannot say a penalty is correct 3 yards from the goaline wresting him down without even looking at the ball and it not be a red card. You cant decide to interpret rules differently.

Its a penalty and a red card or its a free kick to Ayr (or I guess potentially nothing given at all and goes for a goal kick). There is no scenario where that is legitimately a penalty and no red card.

[19QOS19]

Personally I think Buchanan is using his arms you see it all the time. I cant recall one being a straight red and yet the Queens fans are clamouring for it. A penalty was fair in my view.
Also, fwiw some of you seem to be suggesting an attacker can use his arms and a defender can't? That's not even remotely correct.

If it's a penalty (which you agree it is) then it's also, by the letter of the law, a straight red.

[Superhursty7]

I do not understand what you are arguing here. You cant claim "a penalty was fair". You can claim Buchanan was fouling first / more if you want and Ayr should get the free kick. You simply cannot say a penalty is correct 3 yards from the goaline wresting him down without even looking at the ball and it not be a red card. You cant decide to interpret rules differently.
Its a penalty and a red card or its a free kick to Ayr (or I guess potentially nothing given at all and goes for a goal kick). There is no scenario where that is legitimately a penalty and no red card.

Is this not a mute point. The rules changed in 2016 to say that you don't get a pen and a red card.

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I do not understand what you are arguing here. You cant claim "a penalty was fair". You can claim Buchanan was fouling first / more if you want and Ayr should get the free kick. You simply cannot say a penalty is correct 3 yards from the goaline wresting him down without even looking at the ball and it not be a red card. You cant decide to interpret rules differently.

Its a penalty and a red card or its a free kick to Ayr (or I guess potentially nothing given at all and goes for a goal kick). There is no scenario where that is legitimately a penalty and no red card.

I didn't say a penalty was correct I said it was fair. The rules aren't often fair. There is a difference between correct and fair. 

I have no doubt that Buchanan was using his arms as was Baird and they've wrestled one another to the ground. In that context I feel it would be harsh on Queens to award Ayr a freekick as they've lost out. Equally I think it would have been harsh on Ayr to send Baird off. Hence I thought a penalty was fair.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Superhursy7 said:

Is this not a mute point. 

I can't hear you.

[Trogdor]

Also, an experienced FIFA ref like McLean doesn't make mistakes.

Spoiler

 

[Skyline Drifter]

6 minutes ago, Superhursy7 said:

11 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I do not understand what you are arguing here. You cant claim "a penalty was fair". You can claim Buchanan was fouling first / more if you want and Ayr should get the free kick. You simply cannot say a penalty is correct 3 yards from the goaline wresting him down without even looking at the ball and it not be a red card. You cant decide to interpret rules differently.
Its a penalty and a red card or its a free kick to Ayr (or I guess potentially nothing given at all and goes for a goal kick). There is no scenario where that is legitimately a penalty and no red card.

Is this not a mute point. The rules changed in 2016 to say that you don't get a pen and a red card.

No they didnt. I think you should maybe read those again. The point has been clarified several times on the thread already.