WoS - What's the Story

[Burnieman]

Burnie your being a little naughty trying to wind some of the junior fishies in.
I see you were playing tennis against my old team on Saturday. Don't worry even Novak Djkovic got pumped 6-0 in the 1st.
Whens the 2nd set bud ?
 
 
 
 

Sorry? You OK Al?

[archieb]

16 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Back to the point, what happens now to the Junior Cup that is supposed to be played to a finish? I assume Talbot and Pollok relinquish their place (if it ever gets played) and Hurlford get a bye into the Final?

Why on earth would they do any such thing?

SJC is completely separate from WoSFL & SCC, which Lok & Talbot have withdrawn from.

IF the postponed 19-20 SJC games are at some point scheduled to be played while there are still restrictions then a decision will have to be made.

Admission of spectators should not be an issue as there's a gate money guarantee for semis and final is there not? Which the SJFA would have to stump up if they announce the games are to be closed-doors.

No doubt there will be other developments before any such situation has to be faced and decided upon.

[FairWeatherFan]

Kinda proving the point some made that the West clubs kept their Junior membership so they can empty the coffers after feeling forced to leave.

[archieb]

11 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Kinda proving the point some made that the West clubs kept their Junior membership so they can empty the coffers after feeling forced to leave.

A bit unfair to Pollok as they'd already qualified for the last lot of SJC semis so are entitled to that guaranteed semifinal income

[Burnieman]

31 minutes ago, archieb said:

Why on earth would they do any such thing?

SJC is completely separate from WoSFL & SCC, which Lok & Talbot have withdrawn from.

IF the postponed 19-20 SJC games are at some point scheduled to be played while there are still restrictions then a decision will have to be made.

Admission of spectators should not be an issue as there's a gate money guarantee for semis and final is there not? Which the SJFA would have to stump up if they announce the games are to be closed-doors.

No doubt there will be other developments before any such situation has to be faced and decided upon.

You going to field a scratch side and stay in? look forward to you doing likewise in the SCC...........

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Burnieman

[archieb]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

You going to field a scratch side and stay in? All about the money, dear me

 

Just over a week ago, 70% of the WoSFL clubs said they couldn't survive more than a month financially if playing competitive football behind closed doors.

3 days ago, 53/67 of them decided to take the risk of trying to do exactly that, and  it's barely 24 hours since that number went up to 58. I truly hope that none of them come to regret their decision for any reason.

Of course the decisions of the other 9 were taken with financial factors in mind, how could they not be? But if you've taken the trouble to read their statements you must recognise your mantra "all about the money" is as wrong as it is pathetic.

None of us really knows what either the near or the more distant future holds for any of us either in the 58 or the 9 in the West or you in the East who took the plunge en masse.

Fundamentally we can only hope to survive and, eventually, to thrive again.

Nasty digs like that of yours in the quote are nothing short of shameful and disgusting. Put a sock in it, please!

[Burnieman]

Just over a week ago, 70% of the WoSFL clubs said they couldn't survive more than a month financially if playing competitive football behind closed doors.
3 days ago, 53/67 of them decided to take the risk of trying to do exactly that, and  it's barely 24 hours since that number went up to 58. I truly hope that none of them come to regret their decision for any reason.
Of course the decisions of the other 9 were taken with financial factors in mind, how could they not be? But if you've taken the trouble to read their statements you must recognise your mantra "all about the money" is as wrong as it is pathetic.
None of us really knows what either the near or the more distant future holds for any of us either in the 58 or the 9 in the West or you in the East who took the plunge en masse.
Fundamentally we can only hope to survive and, eventually, to thrive again.
Nasty digs like that of yours in the quote are nothing short of shameful and disgusting. Put a sock in it, please!

It's shameful frankly. Shaft the Conference clubs by getting a guarantee of no penalty by withdrawing so you can waltz straightback into the Premier, but playing a game or two if the opportunity is there simply for the money to bolster your bank balance.

Are you going to play in the SCC?

[Burnieman]

Teams statements called it for health and safety and all.
But been playing friendlies ok.
But playing South cup not ok.
But playing Junior cup is ok.
Getting dizzy.

All about the money.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, archieb said:

A bit unfair to Pollok as they'd already qualified for the last lot of SJC semis so are entitled to that guaranteed semifinal income

I don't think its unfair or that anyone is entitled to anything. We all know that the guarantee isn't prize money, its just there to make up the difference if the games under perform at the gate. Plenty of clubs were in similar positions when the season ended where they could net a payday from a derby game/promotion push/championship run/play off/cup run.

I don't think the SJFA ever envisioned having to pay 100% of the value. So to expect it, even if games get played BCD or under restricted capacity to complete the tournament. It does make it look like clubs only retained their Junior membership to empty the coffers.

 

[archieb]

1 hour ago, Burmah Oil said:

Teams statements called it for health and safety and all.

But been playing friendlies ok.

But playing South cup not ok.

But playing Junior cup is ok.

Getting dizzy.

Friendlies were played in mostly clement weather so lack of changing & showering facilities not so much a problem as league & cup games in midwinter. Also, players do not get paid pre-season.

Never said playing in the SJC is ok, it depends if the circumstances have changed whenever the games get scheduled. If not, I'd recommend withdrawal.

45 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

It's shameful frankly. Shaft the Conference clubs by getting a guarantee of no penalty by withdrawing so you can waltz straightback into the Premier, but playing a game or two if the opportunity is there simply for the money to bolster your bank balance.

Are you going to play in the SCC?

Never asked for no penalty, it was offered. As I've said elsewhere, I'd still have argued for withdrawal if it'd meant dropping to the conferences or even tier 9.

Pollok are also to withdraw from the SCC & I expect the rest of the 9 will be the same.

26 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I don't think its unfair or that anyone is entitled to anything. We all know that the guarantee isn't prize money, its just there to make up the difference if the games under perform at the gate. Plenty of clubs were in similar positions when the season ended where they could net a payday from a derby game/promotion push/championship run/play off/cup run.

I don't think the SJFA ever envisioned having to pay 100% of the value. So to expect it, even if games get played BCD or under restricted capacity to complete the tournament. It does make it look like clubs only retained their Junior membership to empty the coffers.

 

Fair point although I disagree with your last sentence.

Pollok earned their semifinal place so deserve a crack at getting into another final irrespective of the financial aspect.

Edited October 12, 2020 by archieb

[Andy groundhopper]

Maybe my mind is scrambled by all the goings on - but is there a blanket coverage on no promotion across all leagues, or is this just in the WOSFL ? Could be a big chance for so called smaller clubs to grab the opportunity, before some normality returns.

[AlanCamelonfan]

25 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Maybe my mind is scrambled by all the goings on - but is there a blanket coverage on no promotion across all leagues, or is this just in the WOSFL ? Could be a big chance for so called smaller clubs to grab the opportunity, before some normality returns.

Just wosfl

[GordonS]

12 hours ago, gaz5 said:

Going to add another frustration to the list:

- Test and Trace telling you the whole first team and development group must isolate for 14 days on Saturday, making the club/players/league scramble around all night trying to make arrangements, various follow up conversations with T&T to then be ignored all day Sunday and emailed Monday morning saying "Actually lads, case closed, carry on as normal". As a result of being told they had to isolate on Saturday, guys now working Tuesday night who would otherwise have been available with no time to change that (from home obvs, isolation didn't matter).

Honestly, we keep hearing how test and trace is the front line in stopping the virus spread when if you look at the interactions various teams have had with them (including us twice now) they don't appear to know whether they're going for a shite or a haircut.

Good news is we're back on, but not without impact (again!).

Got to say, I can think of loads of reasons why that would happen. Identifying the contact that caused the transmission and finding it came after that person had been in contact with the team is the most obvious one. 

Getting angry at people for things you don't understand isn't going to make matters better. Can we not assume everyone is a moron until we figure out otherwise? 

[gaz5]

Got to say, I can think of loads of reasons why that would happen. Identifying the contact that caused the transmission and finding it came after that person had been in contact with the team is the most obvious one. 

Getting angry at people for things you don't understand isn't going to make matters better. Can we not assume everyone is a moron until we figure out otherwise? 

Sorry Gordon, but no. It's quite acceptable to call it out for what it is.

 

Your assumption for the reason it happened is incorrect, but I won't go into it other than to say they 100% made an arse of it and are well aware of that.

 

There was zero new information and zero changes to the case between 40+ people being told they must isolate for 14 days on Saturday and an email this morning saying no people must isolate at all despite 4 players (who were no closer than anyone else) being contacted by the app and told to isolate already.

 

You can give the benefit of the doubt if you want, having no information and no understanding of the case, but having all of the info and having been involved in it I'm quite comfortable in saying test and trace handling of the case has been a shambles.

 

 

 

 

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

8 hours ago, gaz5 said:

Sorry Gordon, but no. It's quite acceptable to call it out for what it is.

 

Your assumption for the reason it happened is incorrect, but I won't go into it other than to say they 100% made an arse of it and are well aware of that.

 

There was zero new information and zero changes to the case between 40+ people being told they must isolate for 14 days on Saturday and an email this morning saying no people must isolate at all despite 4 players (who were no closer than anyone else) being contacted by the app and told to isolate already.

 

You can give the benefit of the doubt if you want, having no information and no understanding of the case, but having all of the info and having been involved in it I'm quite comfortable in saying test and trace handling of the case has been a shambles.

 

 

 

 

 

The same happened with the shire during pre season 

[8MileBU]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

Got to say, I can think of loads of reasons why that would happen. Identifying the contact that caused the transmission and finding it came after that person had been in contact with the team is the most obvious one. 

Getting angry at people for things you don't understand isn't going to make matters better. Can we not assume everyone is a moron until we figure out otherwise? 

Random question - As a Linlithgow resident Gordon, do you shop at Tesco, Sainsbury or Aldi mostly, or generally all three?

[lithgierose]

51 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

Random question - As a Linlithgow resident Gordon, do you shop at Tesco, Sainsbury or Aldi mostly, or generally all three?

Home delivery incoming. 

[8MileBU]

27 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Home delivery incoming. 

Aye, now I’ve asked the question that’ll be the answer.

[Auld Heid]

Random question - As a Linlithgow resident Gordon, do you shop at Tesco, Sainsbury or Aldi mostly, or generally all three?

 

Linlithgow has an Aldi, how common...!!

 

Personally I'm more a Fortnum & Mason type shopper.

 

 

 

[Dev]

The Latest from the WoS. The key part may be:

The Scottish Football Association ........ stated, that we must retain the format that was negotiated at the very beginning of the season, which is:

Premier Division of 20 clubs reducing to 16 by 2022/23 at tier 6. Tier 7 was to consist of 3 Conferences playing to become 3 Linear Leagues by 2022/23.

 

 

October 13, 2020

The following is an email sent to all WoSFL member clubs at 10.50am on the morning of 13th October 2020 by Kennie Young, Secretary of the Interim Management Group.

---

To All Clubs,

As Secretary of the Interim Management Group of the West of Scotland Football League it is my duty to update you on the plans for starting the Leagues.

We have had intense discussions, throughout the weekend, including talks with the Scottish Football Association on possible scenarios surrounding the results of our recent ballot.

These meetings and discussions culminated in a Zoom Meeting last night lasting almost three hours.

Our over-riding principle in all this is protection of each and every one of our 67 clubs.

In line with the decision taken by the Lowland League, we also decided that we would not force any team to take part in a competition that had the potential to bankrupt them due to no income from fans, or that forced them to ignore their duty of care to their players and staff.

Therefore we offered the teams the option to withdraw from the league without penalty.

Relegation is a form of penalty.

So we cannot relegate a team for not playing and also we could not relegate a team for playing whilst allowing non-playing teams to retain a spot for next season.

The Scottish Football Association have accepted that due to the current circumstances we are quite correct to consider the welfare and survival of all of our clubs and that we have to consider all aspects and implications of any decision we come to.

They completely agreed that it would be unfair to punish any team wishing to withdraw from playing if they were concerned for their players, staff, committee and their fans. Also, that the clubs had to consider the financial implications of closed door matches.

They also informed us that due to a number of clubs withdrawing from playing and without penalty, that it was right and proper that the full 4 league structure from this season should rollover to the next season. 

However, it was also stated, that we must retain the format that was negotiated at the very beginning of the season, which is:

Premier Division of 20 clubs reducing to 16 by 2022/23 at tier 6. Tier 7 was to consist of 3 Conferences playing to become 3 Linear Leagues by 2022/23.

All teams must start Season 2021/22 in the League they are in at present.

For clarification, this means that there will be no promotion and/or relegation between tiers 6 and 7 in accordance with the Q&A document emailed to every member club on Monday 5th October. This was subsequently fully discussed at the online meeting held on the evening of Tuesday 6th October, three days before the closing time of the vote.

We considered every option and outcome, we also considered the emails, messages and phone calls from a small number of clubs that contacted us with various suggestions.

Since the result of the Ballot being published we have received emails from 9 clubs informing and confirming that they wish to withdraw from competing in this season’s League Competition. This has been implemented and the Premier League will commence on Saturday 24^th October with 15 Clubs.

It has been decided that we will run with a fixture list of 28 Games where each team will play the other 14 teams on a home and away basis.

The 3 Conferences will run with the remaining teams and will also be played on a home and away basis, we may if required adjust these Conferences to try to achieve a balance across the leagues.

Titles, Trophies and Medals will be assigned to all competitions.

I now have to inform you, that, should your club wish to take up the option of withdrawing from playing in any of the Leagues and be able to do so without penalty, you will have until 8PM on Friday 16^th October 2020, to confirm via an email to myself, of that decision. After that deadline passes all clubs that have not informed me of their withdrawal will be considered as playing.

A fixture list will be produced as soon as possible thereafter and the clubs will be expected to complete those fixtures. However, we have also decided that due to some of the results from the earlier club survey, we have also added a period of grace to still withdraw without penalty.

If you feel your club cannot continue due to the restrictions that are in place at that time, we will allow clubs to inform me via an email of their desire to withdraw from playing.

The deadline for that stage will be 8PM on Saturday 14^thNovember 2020.

Please note, that any club that has not withdrawn from playing by that deadline will be considered as playing and will be expected to complete their commitment to the League by playing all fixtures as set out. Any club withdrawing after that deadline will be considered as having withdrawn from the WoSFL and may be sanctioned for that withdrawal.

Finally, a reminder once again that the closing deadline for any club to withdraw without penalty from the Soccer Shop Challenge Cup is Saturday 17^th October.

Regards,

Kennie Young
Secretary
Interim Management Group of the West of Scotland Football League