WoS - What's the Story

[Casey Jones]

14 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

https://nonleaguescotland.org.uk/blackburn.htm

In one pic you see the doors to the two senior dressing rooms, and down the far end and through the gate is the 4 youth changing roons.  In the middle is the committee room, refs rooms, physio room, kitchen and more toilets.

Are all the changing rooms solely for the football pitch, or is the youth changing rooms there, as they have access to other sport facilities? A number of teams would be jealous of all these facilities

[Burnieman]

Back to the point, what happens now to the Junior Cup that is supposed to be played to a finish? I assume Talbot and Pollok relinquish their place (if it ever gets played) and Hurlford get a bye into the Final?

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, Casey Jones said:

Are all the changing rooms solely for the football pitch, or is the youth changing rooms there, as they have access to other sport facilities? A number of teams would be jealous of all these facilities

There's a grass pitch directly opposite the youth changing rooms, and another about 100 yards away. We also still have the old Murrayfield Park the other way behind the enclosure.  We effectively have 4 full size pitches next to each other, one of which is 3g as you know which is the main pitch. All under lease to the Community Club from West Lothian Council.

All these pitches were in some state if anyone who has been to Blackburn pre-2012 remembers the old Murrayfield Park (terrible facilities) and the black ash pitch (which is now the new ground). A lot of effort to get to where we are.

[Ginaro]

8 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Back to the point, what happens now to the Junior Cup that is supposed to be played to a finish? I assume Talbot and Pollok relinquish their place (if it ever gets played) and Hurlford get a bye into the Final?

Given the attraction of the Junior Cup is playing in front of fans (and also making money big semi/final gates) then does it even make sense to play the games this season?

[GordonS]

Are clubs like Linlithgow Rose paying players? At the previous rates? If so, how long can that last without matchday income? 

[patriot1]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Given the attraction of the Junior Cup is playing in front of fans (and also making money big semi/final gates) then does it even make sense to play the games this season?

The other attraction of the Junior Cup is the entry for the winners into the Scottish Cup with the prestige and money that brings. 

I believe at the moment no decision has been made on reduced entry to this year's Scottish. 

[patriot1]

2 hours ago, Casey Jones said:

So, I didn’t see this before my last response Burnie!

Are your facilities huge, which allows players to use changing rooms? Also, was your club given permission or did you just go with it as a gimme?   Genuinely interested.

Clubs have to submit detailed plans for use of the changing rooms to the league. They are only for changing in with no showers and the away team has to receive precedence. 

St Andrews gave Ormiston use of both changing rooms yesterday in order to allow for social distancing and five of our players used one of our portacabins. The reason for only five is that you are not allowed to have some players change and then others going in to replace them. 

[Casey Jones]

14 minutes ago, patriot1 said:

Clubs have to submit detailed plans for use of the changing rooms to the league. They are only for changing in with no showers and the away team has to receive precedence. 

St Andrews gave Ormiston use of both changing rooms yesterday in order to allow for social distancing and five of our players used one of our portacabins. The reason for only five is that you are not allowed to have some players change and then others going in to replace them. 

Thank you P1

[lithgierose]

Craig mcewan only the start ? 

Might be a few more managers leaving the west teams. 

[Burnieman]

Clubs have to submit detailed plans for use of the changing rooms to the league. They are only for changing in with no showers and the away team has to receive precedence. 
St Andrews gave Ormiston use of both changing rooms yesterday in order to allow for social distancing and five of our players used one of our portacabins. The reason for only five is that you are not allowed to have some players change and then others going in to replace them. 

England allow the "shuttle system" where 6 players go in, change, come out and another 6 go in. Not ideal, but it could be an interim solution.

[gaz5]

Yep, there's lots of moving parts at the moment.

Our week this week is well documented in the WoS restart thread so won't go over it again, but it's certainly been testing and probably in a lot of ways people wouldn't realise it expect.

Just a few examples from this week:

- There are players who want to play but have underlying medical conditions that are making that difficult. They are young and fit, but you can be that and have, for example, bad asthma that puts you at increased risk.

- There are players whose employers are telling them they need to knock football on the head in the current climate, particularly after Wednesdays announcement. Players want to play but it's hard to convince them to take the EoS/SFA's/ScotGov word that it's "approved" when the guys paying their mortgages are telling them not to

- There are others who work in industries (and I'm one of them) where they're not allowed a second "job" without going through an onerous approvals process. Up to now football has been a "voluntary" position, so under no scrutiny. Since the SFA frigged it on Thursday to make us "professional" when we're clearly not to circumvent the ScotGov shutdown, you have players (and coaches) now being asked questions about their "professional" position that they have listed as "voluntary" in a non professional context.

- We've had a steady stream of tests and a mix of positive and negative results. That then leads to the inevitable situation we had yesterday after a positive test at 07:30 in the day of a game and losing 2/3 of our squad, followed during the game by the rest of it (though that may be loosening slightly now, hopefully).

The changing facilities in winter is definitely going to be an issue. It was awkward yesterday, but hats off to Haddington they had put gazeebos up for us to keep the clothes and stuff dry when it rained and put down a waterproof tarp on the ground so stuff could be kept dry. They'd made an effort to give us something to use, which was very much appreciated.

But as we get into the colder, sideways rain months, it's definitely going to be a challenge without indoor changing facilities, which many/ most grounds won't be able to provide with the current restrictions (including the confirmation that you can't cycle players to keep social distance - I.e. you can't do 5 in/5 out on a rotation. You can only have one group of players in a day, so if you can only fit 5 at a time, that's all you get that day)

The financial impact I think clubs will have forecast, we certainly have, but that forecast will be far more quantifiable after the first 4-6 weeks which is why, along with figuring out everything else above, it's worth giving it a go and we were up for that.

At least at the end of the 4-6 weeks period it's a decision based on actuals, both financial and logistical, having had a chance to experience them.

Going to add another frustration to the list:

- Test and Trace telling you the whole first team and development group must isolate for 14 days on Saturday, making the club/players/league scramble around all night trying to make arrangements, various follow up conversations with T&T to then be ignored all day Sunday and emailed Monday morning saying "Actually lads, case closed, carry on as normal". As a result of being told they had to isolate on Saturday, guys now working Tuesday night who would otherwise have been available with no time to change that (from home obvs, isolation didn't matter).

Honestly, we keep hearing how test and trace is the front line in stopping the virus spread when if you look at the interactions various teams have had with them (including us twice now) they don't appear to know whether they're going for a shite or a haircut.

Good news is we're back on, but not without impact (again!).

[patriot1]

7 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

10 hours ago, patriot1 said:

Clubs have to submit detailed plans for use of the changing rooms to the league. They are only for changing in with no showers and the away team has to receive precedence. 
St Andrews gave Ormiston use of both changing rooms yesterday in order to allow for social distancing and five of our players used one of our portacabins. The reason for only five is that you are not allowed to have some players change and then others going in to replace them. 

England allow the "shuttle system" where 6 players go in, change, come out and another 6 go in. Not ideal, but it could be an interim solution.

The shuttle system is specifically banned in Scotland which is what I meant when I said you couldn't have players replacing others. That's why Ormiston were given both changing rooms. 

[patriot1]

2 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Going to add another frustration to the list:

- Test and Trace telling you the whole first team and development group must isolate for 14 days on Saturday, making the club/players/league scramble around all night trying to make arrangements, various follow up conversations with T&T to then be ignored all day Sunday and emailed Monday morning saying "Actually lads, case closed, carry on as normal". As a result of being told they had to isolate on Saturday, guys now working Tuesday night who would otherwise have been available with no time to change that (from home obvs, isolation didn't matter).

Honestly, we keep hearing how test and trace is the front line in stopping the virus spread when if you look at the interactions various teams have had with them (including us twice now) they don't appear to know whether they're going for a shite or a haircut.

Good news is we're back on, but not without impact (again!).

I can only imagine your frustration. I hope you have some hair left. 

This is only a taster for things to come. The COVID situation is going to continue to change over the winter. Restrictions and rules will constantly change and we may well go into lockdown again. Both clubs and the League are going to have to be prepared to be flexible and to adapt the way we work and the season itself if we are to complete this season. 

But at least we are trying. 

[LongTimeLurker]

I'm sure Burnieman will have seen this from a poster linked to Pollok yesterday when I suggested over on the WoS forum that Hurlford were now in the 2019/20 SJC final:

 

12 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Back to the point, what happens now to the Junior Cup that is supposed to be played to a finish? I assume Talbot and Pollok relinquish their place (if it ever gets played) and Hurlford get a bye into the Final?

 

20 hours ago, archieb said:

How did you work that out, you diddy?

Pollok and Talbot have withdrawn from the WoSFL and the South Challenge Cup.  The SJC is a completely different competition, or did you not realise? 

 

Plenty of blazer politics left to unfold by the looks of things. Will be interesting to see what the reaction is from certain quarters, if pulling out of the 2020/21 SCC also means no 2021/22 entry for failing to fulfill a fixture.

Edited October 12, 2020 by LongTimeLurker

[8MileBU]

12 hours ago, Burnieman said:

There's a grass pitch directly opposite the youth changing rooms, and another about 100 yards away. We also still have the old Murrayfield Park the other way behind the enclosure.  We effectively have 4 full size pitches next to each other, one of which is 3g as you know which is the main pitch. All under lease to the Community Club from West Lothian Council.

All these pitches were in some state if anyone who has been to Blackburn pre-2012 remembers the old Murrayfield Park (terrible facilities) and the black ash pitch (which is now the new ground). A lot of effort to get to where we are.

Blackburn is a brilliant example of what can be achieved with a bit of planning and hard work, and like you say, compared to what was there before...

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Honestly, we keep hearing how test and trace is the front line in stopping the virus spread when if you look at the interactions various teams have had with them (including us twice now) they don't appear to know whether they're going for a shite or a haircut.

They're the same people that would otherwise be working as temps in Call Centres or have had the misfortune of ending up out of work.

Unfortunately there won't be a lot of people working in that environment with a ton of experience. Its not surprising they're going to get things wrong. I imagine a lot of them are going to default to the cautious approach in applying what training they've been given, until someone above them tells them otherwise.

Glad to hear you've been given the OK to get back to things.

[gaz5]

I can only imagine your frustration. I hope you have some hair left. 
This is only a taster for things to come. The COVID situation is going to continue to change over the winter. Restrictions and rules will constantly change and we may well go into lockdown again. Both clubs and the League are going to have to be prepared to be flexible and to adapt the way we work and the season itself if we are to complete this season. 
But at least we are trying. 

Cheers Patriot.

While I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of how this season is likely to go, that in itself is a problem, for me personally anyway (and I know for others as well).

The level we play at its about more, for the majority, than just putting games on or plodding through a season whichever way we can.

Clubs raise funds and develop their facilities to progress off the park. They hire managers/coaches to improve their teams on the park, invest in that area and hopefully progress. I think I'd feel safe assuming all my peers are the same when I say we're all ambitious, or we wouldn't do the job at this level and that as a result it takes up a hugely significant amount of our time chasing that ambition. None of us are turning up 2 nights a week and half a day on a Saturday and that's it for our football week. [emoji846]

Under normal circumstances we can all justify that effort/time spent to ourselves because there is a purpose, a target, something to drive towards and for the most part reaching that or not depends on us and our teams (as a collective) performance. If we don't return what we want, ultimately we can only look at ourselves.

At the moment, that's not the case, or certainly doesn't feel like it. It really does feel like the only goal is to get games on any which way we can and what happens in them is both an afterthought and in many cases completely outside of our control in terms of how that looks if we do get there.

I understand the mental health benefits of getting games on and keeping players playing etc. so playing the games, at least for this initial period to see how it goes, is the right thing to do. We will know more after we've tried it out.

But at the same time I think it's OK for me to have an alternate view, being involved in the ground in that initial period and to say that it's having the opposite impact on me personally. I'm not in this just to do a few training sessions a week or make sure I have enough players to put a game on. It's a significant amount of time and effort to expend with a young family when it feels a lot like the only aim at the moment is to complete a season, if we can, hopefully, without killing a club or getting relegated because we've not had a team to field for a dozen reasons that would never be an issue.

I appreciate people will think differently, and I absolutely accept that view, but it doesn't make mine or the others thinking similarly villains. Just guys having a different experience of football through Covid.

[Ginaro]

1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Plenty of blazer politics left to unfold by the looks of things. Will be interesting to see what the reaction is from certain quarters, if pulling out of the 2020/21 SCC also means no 2021/22 entry.

Clubs can withdraw from the SCC without sanction by 17th October

 

[Burnieman]

The shuttle system is specifically banned in Scotland which is what I meant when I said you couldn't have players replacing others. That's why Ormiston were given both changing rooms. 

I'm aware of that, perhaps leagues need to push for it to be allowed, it would solve some of the issues.

[superbigal]

Burnie your being a little naughty trying to wind some of the junior fishies in.

I see you were playing tennis against my old team on Saturday. Don't worry even Novak Djkovic got pumped 6-0 in the 1st.

Whens the 2nd set bud ?