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Auld Heid

WoS - What's the Story

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Apologies if this has been covered and explained.

 

Why are the WoS clubs baulking at playing this season, when the EoS is up and running?

 

 

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Mostly due to not being able to sustain their clubs with no revenue coming in and their assessment that fans are unlikely to be back at any point in the near future and the season is unlikely to finish in any event.

 

There's concern it puts the club's in a precarious position for many years to come financially. They are looking at the potential running and outcome of the season and seeing more cons than pros to muddling through.

 

Lots of them have mentioned changing facilities and showers as well, but from speaking to a few old acquaintances in the West the main issue is the financial impact of lost matchday/sponsorship revenue due to the current restrictions and the prospect of shelling out in many cases huge sums of money for a season they've concluded won't provide any or much benefit in the long term.

 

I get the impression there are more than a few teams in the East who share similar concerns, but as there's no clear option or deadline as there is in the West no one wants to blink first.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

I get the impression there are more than a few teams in the East who share similar concerns, but as there's no clear option or deadline as there is in the West no one wants to blink first.

Maybe you should propose it for your team then,see what develops. 😉

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Mostly due to not being able to sustain their clubs with no revenue coming in and their assessment that fans are unlikely to be back at any point in the near future and the season is unlikely to finish in any event.
 
There's concern it puts the club's in a precarious position for many years to come financially. They are looking at the potential running and outcome of the season and seeing more cons than pros to muddling through.
 
Lots of them have mentioned changing facilities and showers as well, but from speaking to a few old acquaintances in the West the main issue is the financial impact of lost matchday/sponsorship revenue due to the current restrictions and the prospect of shelling out in many cases huge sums of money for a season they've concluded won't provide any or much benefit in the long term.
 
I get the impression there are more than a few teams in the East who share similar concerns, but as there's no clear option or deadline as there is in the West no one wants to blink first.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks for the update. Now notice Talbot have withdrawn also.

Must confess, for me as we approach winter especially the no changing facilities seems a major issue/concern. Especially potentially to players health - finishing a match - cold, wet and dirty then having to travel home.

I can also understand the financial aspect to clubs with no income.

I'm sure time will tell if the decision by the EoS or WoS is the correct one.

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Maybe you should propose it for your team then,see what develops. 

I never said we were one of them.

 

We were in the 50% who voted in the straw poll to proceed. But I talk to a few in the other 50%.

 

We'll review after the initial 4-6 week period like everyone else.

 

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Chaos caused by the lunacy of allowing Premier clubs to withdraw without penalty and take their place again 2021-22, leading to no relegation/promotion rendering the season meaningless, and Conference clubs being shafted. Think that sums it up.

 

The Lowland League should have had their people on the management committee for the first season or two as was their intention, and only accept applications from clubs who wanted to move. They have imported Junior mentality which has little idea how to run a professional league.

 

Absolutely tin pot stuff

 

On the up side, the EoS Premier has a free run at the Lowland League for another season.

 

 

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Thanks for the update. Now notice Talbot have withdrawn also.

Must confess, for me as we approach winter especially the no changing facilities seems a major issue/concern. Especially potentially to players health - finishing a match - cold, wet and dirty then having to travel home.

I can also understand the financial aspect to clubs with no income.

I'm sure time will tell if the decision by the EoS or WoS is the correct one.

Changing rooms can be used. We used ours yesterday.

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Thanks for the update. Now notice Talbot have withdrawn also.

Must confess, for me as we approach winter especially the no changing facilities seems a major issue/concern. Especially potentially to players health - finishing a match - cold, wet and dirty then having to travel home.

I can also understand the financial aspect to clubs with no income.

I'm sure time will tell if the decision by the EoS or WoS is the correct one.

Yep, there's lots of moving parts at the moment.

Our week this week is well documented in the WoS restart thread so won't go over it again, but it's certainly been testing and probably in a lot of ways people wouldn't realise it expect.

Just a few examples from this week:

- There are players who want to play but have underlying medical conditions that are making that difficult. They are young and fit, but you can be that and have, for example, bad asthma that puts you at increased risk.

- There are players whose employers are telling them they need to knock football on the head in the current climate, particularly after Wednesdays announcement. Players want to play but it's hard to convince them to take the EoS/SFA's/ScotGov word that it's "approved" when the guys paying their mortgages are telling them not to

- There are others who work in industries (and I'm one of them) where they're not allowed a second "job" without going through an onerous approvals process. Up to now football has been a "voluntary" position, so under no scrutiny. Since the SFA frigged it on Thursday to make us "professional" when we're clearly not to circumvent the ScotGov shutdown, you have players (and coaches) now being asked questions about their "professional" position that they have listed as "voluntary" in a non professional context.

- We've had a steady stream of tests and a mix of positive and negative results. That then leads to the inevitable situation we had yesterday after a positive test at 07:30 in the day of a game and losing 2/3 of our squad, followed during the game by the rest of it (though that may be loosening slightly now, hopefully).

The changing facilities in winter is definitely going to be an issue. It was awkward yesterday, but hats off to Haddington they had put gazeebos up for us to keep the clothes and stuff dry when it rained and put down a waterproof tarp on the ground so stuff could be kept dry. They'd made an effort to give us something to use, which was very much appreciated.

But as we get into the colder, sideways rain months, it's definitely going to be a challenge without indoor changing facilities, which many/ most grounds won't be able to provide with the current restrictions (including the confirmation that you can't cycle players to keep social distance - I.e. you can't do 5 in/5 out on a rotation. You can only have one group of players in a day, so if you can only fit 5 at a time, that's all you get that day)

The financial impact I think clubs will have forecast, we certainly have, but that forecast will be far more quantifiable after the first 4-6 weeks which is why, along with figuring out everything else above, it's worth giving it a go and we were up for that.

At least at the end of the 4-6 weeks period it's a decision based on actuals, both financial and logistical, having had a chance to experience them.

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17 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

On the up side, the EoS Premier has a free run at the Lowland League for another season.

Kilwinning and Darvel might be two that think differently as they were early to announce publicy their choice to start on the 24th October and having been investing in their facilities over the summer.

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Changing rooms can be used. We used ours yesterday.
To be fair Burnie, you guys are a special case as you have the facilities currently to do it following the regs.

You are right, they can be used, but the majority of teams won't be able to sit those current regs.

It's great you guys can, don't get me wrong, we might be able to sort something out as well, hopefully, because we have some spare containers, but given the demographic of facilities across the league's, you might get 30%-40% who can do something changing room wise before winter, if we're lucky?

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51 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

To be fair Burnie, you guys are a special case as you have the facilities currently to do it following the regs.

You are right, they can be used, but the majority of teams won't be able to sit those current regs.

It's great you guys can, don't get me wrong, we might be able to sort something out as well, hopefully, because we have some spare containers, but given the demographic of facilities across the league's, you might get 30%-40% who can do something changing room wise before winter, if we're lucky?

I agree, we're in a fortunate position, but it's right to point out there isn't a blanket ban and all EoS clubs know that.

Some just wont be able to meet the requirements as they stand, and if they don't change then that will become a major issue as the weeks drag on.  What the solution to that is I don't really know, maybe Govt pay-outs could help with temp buildings? who knows.

 

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Vote two weeks ago was fifty/fifty on starting if not gotten in to changing rooms. League got ok for changing room. Vote was like eighty per cent for starting if gotten no showers. Same with no fans and all. Our players wanted to play even if no changing rooms it was comittee not sure. But now there allowed should get ok for ours for next week.

 

Lowland League and East seem to have handled this year a lot better than SPFL and West. More united. West made a mess out of null and void. Now made a mess out of starting.

Auld Heid I had a look at these leagues:

SPFL:- forty two teams starting, no teams shut down.

Lowland:- seventeen teams starting, no teams shut down.

East:- forty nine teams starting, no teams shut down.

West:- fifty five teams starting, fourteen teams shut down.

South:- fourteen teams starting, no teams shut down.

Lothian juniors: twelve teams starting next month, no teams shut down.

One hundred and eighty eight teams starting, fourteen teams shut down. Think you should be asking why only fourteen are shut down and why they are all West teams. Not making out like black/white East/West divide.

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59 minutes ago, Burmah Oil said:

Vote two weeks ago was fifty/fifty on starting if not gotten in to changing rooms. League got ok for changing room. Vote was like eighty per cent for starting if gotten no showers. Same with no fans and all. Our players wanted to play even if no changing rooms it was comittee not sure. But now there allowed should get ok for ours for next week.

 

Lowland League and East seem to have handled this year a lot better than SPFL and West. More united. West made a mess out of null and void. Now made a mess out of starting.

Auld Heid I had a look at these leagues:

SPFL:- forty two teams starting, no teams shut down.

Lowland:- seventeen teams starting, no teams shut down.

East:- forty nine teams starting, no teams shut down.

West:- fifty five teams starting, fourteen teams shut down.

South:- fourteen teams starting, no teams shut down.

Lothian juniors: twelve teams starting next month, no teams shut down.

One hundred and eighty eight teams starting, fourteen teams shut down. Think you should be asking why only fourteen are shut down and why they are all West teams. Not making out like black/white East/West divide.

 

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Vote two weeks ago was fifty/fifty on starting if not gotten in to changing rooms. League got ok for changing room. Vote was like eighty per cent for starting if gotten no showers. Same with no fans and all. Our players wanted to play even if no changing rooms it was comittee not sure. But now there allowed should get ok for ours for next week.
 
Lowland League and East seem to have handled this year a lot better than SPFL and West. More united. West made a mess out of null and void. Now made a mess out of starting.
Auld Heid I had a look at these leagues:
SPFL:- forty two teams starting, no teams shut down.
Lowland:- seventeen teams starting, no teams shut down.
East:- forty nine teams starting, no teams shut down.
West:- fifty five teams starting, fourteen teams shut down.
South:- fourteen teams starting, no teams shut down.
Lothian juniors: twelve teams starting next month, no teams shut down.
One hundred and eighty eight teams starting, fourteen teams shut down. Think you should be asking why only fourteen are shut down and why they are all West teams. Not making out like black/white East/West divide.
When you see it in that context it makes the decision of the 14 all the stranger.

Are the players from the 14 therefore free?

As clubs have potentially breached players contracts.

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Auld Heid league saying only eight of them have gone through with it. Fifty nine start and eight shut down. Four or five Premier teams and maybe no coincident most of them were never up for leaving the juniors like Talbot and Ladeside. Two or three Division One teams and Peasy cant get there park.

No Talbot to beat to go up to the Lowland would be big help for Lithgate, Cuikie, the Brox, the Haws and the Belters and all? But still gotten teams like the Bankies, Beith, Darvel, Medda and the Buffs if champ can get there licence.

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6 hours ago, Burnieman said:
6 hours ago, Auld Heid said:
Thanks for the update. Now notice Talbot have withdrawn also.

Must confess, for me as we approach winter especially the no changing facilities seems a major issue/concern. Especially potentially to players health - finishing a match - cold, wet and dirty then having to travel home.

I can also understand the financial aspect to clubs with no income.

I'm sure time will tell if the decision by the EoS or WoS is the correct one.
 

Changing rooms can be used. We used ours yesterday.

Not sure that is the case. I thought that was still at talking stage and I am sure you can’t without permission from league officials.

Someone, can’t for life of me remember where, said an application has to be submitted by the home club stating they can comply with  safe distancing for both home and away teams. Once the application was submitted, an official from the league  would then come to see for themselves that was the case. In addition it was only for changing, not showering. 

Neither Musselburgh nor LSVT used changing rooms on Friay. 

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5 hours ago, Burnieman said:

I agree, we're in a fortunate position, but it's right to point out there isn't a blanket ban and all EoS clubs know that.

Some just wont be able to meet the requirements as they stand, and if they don't change then that will become a major issue as the weeks drag on.  What the solution to that is I don't really know, maybe Govt pay-outs could help with temp buildings? who knows.

 

So, I didn’t see this before my last response Burnie!

Are your facilities huge, which allows players to use changing rooms? Also, was your club given permission or did you just go with it as a gimme?   Genuinely interested.

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7 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

So, I didn’t see this before my last response Burnie!

Are your facilities huge, which allows players to use changing rooms? Also, was your club given permission or did you just go with it as a gimme?   Genuinely interested.

We have 6 changing rooms and yes, authorised by the EoSFL, we wouldn't have used them otherwise.

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