Ralstonite Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 In my opinion one has to differentiate between a 'club' and a 'team'. The latter consists of players who at that time represent the former, i.e. they are employees of the club. The club itself is better defined by its stadium, support and resources as these are typically more permanent, i.e. fixed assets. I always thought it was stupid to pump money into Gretna, because there wasn't the catchment area to sustain a big club. Obviously a club's prestige also depends on their accomplishments, the number of trophies they have won. However, I'd argue a club's history does not make it a big club - Queens Park have a prestigious history, being the fourth most successful club in terms of Scottish Cup victories, but I wouldn't describe them as a big club, even when they owned a 50,000 seat stadium. I suppose therefore, it is the support that is the biggest factor in defining the size of a club. The club's stadium, resources and current team being secondary, though of course one needs a big stadium t accommodate a big fan base. There are two giant clubs in Scotland: Celtic (the bigger of the two, IMHO - bigger stadium and international following) Rangers There are four big clubs: Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee Utd Then there about half a dozen which can pull around 3,000-6,000: Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Partick Thistle and St. Mirren. Of these Motherwell has been the most successful in recent years, followed by Kilmarnock and the Saints. St. Johnstone have punched above their weight for years, but they are one of the lesser clubs, like Inverness CT, Raith Rovers and Ross County. So, I'd list it as follows: Celtic Rangers Hearts Aberdeen Hibs Dundee Utd Motherwell Kilmarnock Dundee St. Mirren Partick Thistle Falkirk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loemba90 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 If you’re talking performance of team over the last 10-15 years then St Johnstone are definitely deserving of a place in top 12, if you’re talking size of support they’re definitely not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ralstonite said: In my opinion one has to differentiate between a 'club' and a 'team'. The latter consists of players who at that time represent the former, i.e. they are employees of the club. The club itself is better defined by its stadium, support and resources as these are typically more permanent, i.e. fixed assets. I always thought it was stupid to pump money into Gretna, because there wasn't the catchment area to sustain a big club. Obviously a club's prestige also depends on their accomplishments, the number of trophies they have won. However, I'd argue a club's history does not make it a big club - Queens Park have a prestigious history, being the fourth most successful club in terms of Scottish Cup victories, but I wouldn't describe them as a big club, even when they owned a 50,000 seat stadium. I suppose therefore, it is the support that is the biggest factor in defining the size of a club. The club's stadium, resources and current team being secondary, though of course one needs a big stadium t accommodate a big fan base. There are two giant clubs in Scotland: Celtic (the bigger of the two, IMHO - bigger stadium and international following) Rangers There are four big clubs: Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs and Dundee Utd Then there about half a dozen which can pull around 3,000-6,000: Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Partick Thistle and St. Mirren. Of these Motherwell has been the most successful in recent years, followed by Kilmarnock and the Saints. St. Johnstone have punched above their weight for years, but they are one of the lesser clubs, like Inverness CT, Raith Rovers and Ross County. So, I'd list it as follows: Celtic Rangers Hearts Aberdeen Hibs Dundee Utd Motherwell Kilmarnock Dundee St. Mirren Partick Thistle Falkirk I think United sit a little below the other 3 big clubs but perhaps still above the next clump 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Falkirk must be the biggest myth in Scottish football. They ceased being relevant when we moved to smaller leagues in 1975. Just 11 seasons out of the last 47 in the top division and only once have they stayed up beyond a second season. Their finishes: 10, 10, 9, 11, 5, 10, 10, 7, 7, 10, 12. In fairness, they aren't alone in the irrelevancy stakes but they'll do for now. Dundee are the only team outside of the established 9 sides who are genuinely underachieving (but brought on by years of (almost literal) criminal mismanagement), the rest are just struggling to accept that they are yesterday's men. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Rangers Celtic (notes unconscious bias) Aberdeen CT County Dundee City Lanarkshire United Renfrew Riviera ....bored now. Edinburgh City (HoH*) Spoiler *Heart of Hibernia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Is the textbook Premier the one you first remember collecting Panini stickers for? Hearts Hibs Aberdeen Falkirk Hamilton Clydebank St Mirren Dundee Dundee United Motherwell Celtic Rangers Might be a bit tricky to host Premier games at the Bankies' current ground but what the hell... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 19 minutes ago, ropy said: I think United sit a little below the other 3 big clubs but perhaps still above the next clump Aye, I was thinking that as I wrote it, but for ease of categorization slotted them in with the big boys. They're 100% the sixth biggest club in Scotland, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Celtic Deidco Aberdeen Dundee United Heart of Midlothian Hibernian Motherwell Kilmarnock St Johnstone Patrick Thistle ...then any two from Inverness, Dundee, Dunfermline, & Raith. Newco will maybe cement their status in my mind if they can survive for another five years or so. Falkirk and Morton haven't been relevant in my lifetime, but the latter seem happy enough knowing that their great-grandfathers saw a cup win in the aftermath of the Great War, so good for them. Slightly amazed that Livingston haven't given up or been moved to Kathmandu yet. Clydebank (RIP) would've made the list back when I was a nipper, as I knew no better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Dundee Utd may well be the sixth biggest currently, but they are miles behind hearts hibs and Aberdeen, not even a debate there for me. Utd are closer to Dundee, Kilmarnock and Motherwell in terms of trophies won and size of support than they are those other three. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralstonite Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: Dundee Utd may well be the sixth biggest currently, but they are miles behind hearts hibs and Aberdeen, not even a debate there for me. Utd are closer to Dundee, Kilmarnock and Motherwell in terms of trophies won and size of support than they are those other three. True. Prior to Covid there were rumours Hibs were looking to treble their playing budget. A decade ago they were attracting 6,000 crowds, this year they've sold 11,000 STs. I think Hearts showed their potential during the Romanov era, when they attracted 30,000+ to Murrayfield for a CL qualifier. I think Aberdeen have benefited from the local oil industry, but they too brought 45,000 to a cup final at Celtic Park a few years back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I think it’s easy to forget how big an impact the Jim McLean era had for Utd. St Johnstone had/ have a bigger record attendance than United, and had finished higher than Utd more seasons than the opposite way around at the time the premier league started in the 70’s. They then went something like 25 consecutive seasons finishing higher than us whilst we mostly wallowed in the lower leagues. United had an incredible run of 3rd/4th place finishes (and a title) for 15-20 years which was completely removed from their historical level. I think that still influences how people view them today. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Ralstonite said: In my opinion one has to differentiate between a 'club' and a 'team'. The latter consists of players who at that time represent the former, i.e. they are employees of the club. The club itself is better defined by its stadium, support and resources as these are typically more permanent, i.e. fixed assets. I always thought it was stupid to pump money into Gretna, because there wasn't the catchment area to sustain a big club. Obviously a club's prestige also depends on their accomplishments, the number of trophies they have won. However, I'd argue a club's history does not make it a big club - Queens Park have a prestigious history, being the fourth most successful club in terms of Scottish Cup victories, but I wouldn't describe them as a big club, even when they owned a 50,000 seat stadium. I suppose therefore, it is the support that is the biggest factor in defining the size of a club. The club's stadium, resources and current team being secondary, though of course one needs a big stadium t accommodate a big fan base. There are four big clubs: Celtic, Aberdeen, Motherwell and Kilmarnock Completely agree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 The teams that haven't been mentioned like Airdrie & Morton are interesting. 30-40 years ago they'd be at least in contention.Scotland have played in 4 major tournaments since Morton played a top flight game!Stirling must be the place that punches most below their weight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 (edited) How much longer are Dundee United going to get away with being classed alongside the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen rather than the biggest "town" teams because they had a decent manager 35 years ago? Edited September 26, 2020 by YassinMoutaouakil 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Szamo's_Ammo Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I think United are in a category of their own. Definitely a smaller club than Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen but definitely bigger than the likes of Kilmarnock, Motherwell and Dundee. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Sortmeout said: I assume due to your age you consider Kilmarnock a true top flight club as you’ve never known anything different. However I was wondering what the older posters thought of clubs like Kilmarnock/Motherwell.....do you still view us as enjoying some kind of “fling” in the top flight? Motherwell have only been out of the top flight for about 5 seasons since they first got promoted in 1903. The ultimate establishment diddy club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: How much longer are Dundee United going to get away with being classed alongside the Edinburgh clubs and Aberdeen rather than the biggest "town" teams because they had a decent manager 35 years ago? I dunno mate Kilmarnock have been in the top flight for nearly 30 years and you still didn’t have us pegged as a top flight team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Sortmeout said: I dunno mate Kilmarnock have been in the top flight for nearly 30 years and you still didn’t have us pegged as a top flight team. It's more that I forgot Killie existed than didn't think they belonged in the league 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Cabbage Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Hibs Hearts Aberdeen Dundee Utd Dundee Motherwell Kilmarnock St Mirren Partick Thistle Dunfermline Raith Rovers Ross County 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 1 hour ago, PauloPerth said: Dundee Utd may well be the sixth biggest currently, but they are miles behind hearts hibs and Aberdeen, not even a debate there for me. Utd are closer to Dundee, Kilmarnock and Motherwell in terms of trophies won and size of support than they are those other three. It seems like some people need to update their textbooks. Motherwell and Killie have over 60 combined years unbroken in the top flight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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