No crowds?

[Burnieman]

Or we could just ban any attention-seeking idiot trying to watch BCD games on a set of step ladders - acting wrongly by any definition - instead: problem solved.

Maybe they're not attention seeking, maybe they just want to watch a game of football. Its now been 9 months since the last games with spectators in Scotland.

 

Meanwhile I'm currently watching games on telly with a few thousand spectators inside. Presumably safely.

 

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, Crow said:

I’m not so sure about attention seeking just people keen to get out and see a game.

I managed to get to 6/7 games down south in August and September then thankfully being involved at a club we’ve had at least 1 game every week since mid September. It would have been one long old drag without it.

The stepladder is absolutely, 100% attention-seeking. If there's a fence or wall stopping you from seeing a game then tough luck. 

[Burnieman]

The stepladder is absolutely, 100% attention-seeking. If there's a fence or wall stopping you from seeing a game then tough luck. 

Or they simply want to watch the game? Not everyone exists to post pics on social media.

[FairWeatherFan]

49 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I don't think it's true that they would be safer inside the ground because they'd still be passing through a single turnstile and a single exit gate. They'd be using toilets and, as we've seen from England, they would not all be observing distancing inside the ground. But that's beside the point; the ground wasn't open, and everyone who stood within 2m of others to watch through the fence is entirely and solely responsible for their own choice.

I don't think being inside the ground would be any better. We've already seen from the likes of Lochgelly and plenty of other venues over the poor practice of social distancing and mask wearing.

There is also a pathway for a return to getting fans in by getting down to Tier 1. So its not like fans in attendance is banned in and of itself, but part of the wider restrictions of being at a higher tier just now.

But it's a bit ridiculous that cinemas in Tier 2+ can show football games, but fans can't go to games.

 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

36 minutes ago, virginton said:

Or we could just ban any attention-seeking idiot trying to watch BCD games on a set of step ladders - acting wrongly by any definition - instead: problem solved.

Maybe they're not attention seeking, maybe they just want to watch a game of football. Its now been 9 months since the last games with spectators.

Because getting a stepladder to peer over a wall is the only possible solution to that problem. Presumably Morton fans should set up viewing platforms over the main entrance at Cappielow for Saturday's home game while we're at it - or just rock up in a 1000 strong crowd to watch from the car park hill while we're at it. Everybody knows that it's been nine months, non-league clubs with a fence are not some special case here.

If they 'just want to watch a game of football' then there's this new-fangled thing called a TV that shows it 24/7 as well as stacks of youth level games going on all over the country.

Edited December 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[Burnieman]

Because getting a stepladder to peer over a wall is the only possible solution to that problem. Presumably Morton fans should set up viewing platforms over the main entrance at Cappielow for Saturday's nor just rock up in a 1000 strong crowd to watch from the car park hill while we're at it, or does the loss of spectator sport only impact fans of clubs with little more than a  fence around the outside of the park?
If they 'just want to watch a game of football' then there's this new-fangled thing called a TV that shows it 24/7 as well as stacks of youth level games going on all over the country.

Why would Morton want to set up a viewing platform? I'm not aware that football at the level we're talking about is televised.

People want to watch their club, and if a handful want to watch over or through a fence, or up a ladder or what not, then it's upto them. I certainly won't judge them on it, and I'm sure they're not bothered about anyone who does.

[Burnieman]

I don't think being inside the ground would be any better. We've already seen from the likes of Lochgelly and plenty of other venues over the poor practice of social distancing and mask wearing.
There is also a pathway for a return to getting fans in by getting down to Tier 1. So its not like fans in attendance is banned in and of itself, but part of the wider restrictions of being at a higher tier just now.
But it's a bit ridiculous that cinemas in Tier 2+ can show football games, but fans can't go to games.
 

Your latter point just sums up the ridiculous situation clubs find themselves in, whilst indoor activity in levels 2 and 3 areas continues unabated.

Gordon will call it "whataboutery" but it's very valid comparisons to make when football is asking for answers on admitting fans whilst shopping centres and cinemas get busy.

Dave Cormack's statement last week was pretty much spot on.

[PastyMan]

11 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

If you think all decisions are based on science then you aren't paying attention.

Jason Leitch has already said several times that admitting limited crowds at non league level isn't a big risk at all. He has gone quite quiet on that recently, because he's probably been told to wind his neck in on statements like that.

Listening to Jason Leitch on Off The Ball yesterday it appears that all the discussion with SFA is around crowds returning to SPFL grounds. He was answering a quesiton comparing attending a match (live) and watching the same match in a cinema. He said that when taking into account all the stewarding and attendant requiremnts for managing a football match and he said it was into the hundreds before you get a fan in, whereas a cinema simply doesn't need all that.

So who is speaking up for non league football? Clubs could be required to make it all ticket to a small number say 100-200 where spectatorss are required to wear masks, have the track and trace app on their phones, stay 2m apart. Referees and assistants required to comment on compliance and sanctions for non compliance.  At the moment it feels like "behind close doors" is a gesture pure and simple and a pointless one at that.

[vikingTON]

9 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

 

Why would Morton want to set up a viewing platform? I'm not aware that football at the level we're talking about is televised.

 

It's got nothing to do with the club. If I just want to watch a game of football then surely I as a fan who haven't seen a game for nine months have the same right as your stepladder hero to rock up to the live event and watch by any means necessary?

I'm not sure what the game being televised has to do with anything as by the same token nobody in the country has gone more than a week without football all year.

Quote

People want to watch their club, and if a handful want to watch over or through a fence, or up a ladder or what not, then it's upto them. I certainly won't judge them on it, and I'm sure they're not bothered about anyone who does.

People have been instructed not to attend matches on government advice in the middle of a pandemic, and the fact that a handful of people are finding more increasingly ridiculous ways to break that advisory will be judged by the government if/when they come to light.

If clubs and their fans can't be entrusted to self-police their actions now then why should the government trust them to enforce any restrictions on crowds in the months to come? 

[Burnieman]

Listening to Jason Leitch on Off The Ball yesterday it appears that all the discussion with SFA is around crowds returning to SPFL grounds. He was answering a quesiton comparing attending a match (live) and watching the same match in a cinema. He said that when taking into account all the stewarding and attendant requiremnts for managing a football match and he said it was into the hundreds before you get a fan in, whereas a cinema simply doesn't need all that.

So who is speaking up for non league football? Clubs could be required to make it all ticket to a small number say 100-200 where spectatorss are required to wear masks, have the track and trace app on their phones, stay 2m apart. Referees and assistants required to comment on compliance and sanctions for non compliance.  At the moment it feels like "behind close doors" is a gesture pure and simple and a pointless one at that.

I'm not a big fan of Leitch, but he is on record as saying the key to fans returning is effectively start at the bottom of the game and work your way up. That was months ago.

That simply isn't happening, the question has to be why. England has shown it can be done, and safely. Some LL and EoS clubs are all set-up just waiting for the green light.

Instead, a political decision has been taken to tie it to Level 1 conditions, when in reality it can be done at any Level with limited crowds and mask wearing. No food or drink, come in, watch the game, go home. You can loosen up the issue of food/drink, and hospitality, based on lower Levels being reached but the basic process of entering, watching and exiting is minimal risk.

[Crow]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

The stepladder is absolutely, 100% attention-seeking. If there's a fence or wall stopping you from seeing a game then tough luck. 

No.

[Burnieman]

People have been instructed not to attend matches on government advice in the middle of a pandemic, and the fact that a handful of people are finding more increasingly ridiculous ways to break that advisory will be judged by the government if/when they come to light.
If clubs and their fans can't be entrusted to self-police their actions now then why should the government trust them to enforce any restrictions on crowds in the months to come? 

You mentioned TV, not me. If you want to rock up with a ladder feel free, nobody but a handful of people on the interwebby will judge you for it.

Maybe the Govt should let people into grounds, it would be safer all round and protect yourself from accusations of attention seeking.

[newcastle broon]

What boils my piss at this level is there will be players parents suddenly becoming stewards or committee members at certain clubs.

There is also no guarantee that fans will go back to football after such a long time away from it. 

The longer it goes on some might've just found something else to do on a Saturday afternoon?

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

You mentioned TV, not me. If you want to rock up with a ladder feel free, nobody but a handful of people on the interwebby will judge you for it.
 

Well actually the club will send the stewards that it is still paying for home games to remove said ladder to maintain the club's compliance with the current government and SPFL guidelines. Which is why there are 0 people out of an average 1700 or so gate rocking up at the ground to watch the game regardless right now. And entirely understandable as it is for non-league officials to turn the blind eye and make exceptions to begin with, the reason why you're now getting 60/70 folk mingling on the other side of a fence every other week is because clubs have enabled them to do so. It is a failure of enforcement, not an argument to just open the gates anyway because people are acting irresponsibly.

Quote

Maybe the Govt should let people into grounds, it would be safer all round and protect yourself from accusations of attention seeking.

Or maybe grown adults could just stop acting like imbeciles because they can't watch some blokes kicking a ball around for a wee while in the middle of a global pandemic. I know which answer the authorities will go for.

Edited December 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[Burnieman]

Or maybe grown adults could just stop acting like imbeciles because they can't watch some blokes kicking a ball around for a wee while in the middle of a global pandemic. I know which answer the authorities will go for.

It's not a club matter if people are on public property, it would be a Police matter.

As for calling people "imbeciles" for having the audacity to want to watch their team play football or "watch some blokes kicking a ball around" as you put it, after being locked out for 9 months, well...

[vikingTON]

Everybody wants to watch their team play football champ. 99.9% of them have been capable of complying with current public health advice though, rather than shimmying up a ladder to try and find another ridiculous loophole to exploit.

So they're either the only true fans of the game in the whole of Scotland, or a tiny minority of selfish imbeciles. Tough call!

Edited December 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[Burnieman]

Everybody wants to watch their team play football champ. 99.9% of them have been capable of complying with current public health advice though, rather than shimmying up a ladder to try and find another ridiculous loophole to exploit.
So they're either the only true fans of the game in the whole of Scotland, or a tiny minority of selfish imbeciles. Tough call!

You're making stuff up now champ, I think you need to step away and take a deep breath.

[happy]

I find this picture sad,funny,embarrassing,unnecessary and ridiculous.I wouldn't be surprised to see it about 11pm before the bells.

It looks like a complete set up.

P.S. Always maintain three points of contact and minimise the time spent on the ladder.

[HibeeJibee]

They're peering into Princess Royal Park from Banff Canal Park where an amateur game was ongoing. (Presumably orange bib man was involved).

So viewing a game up on ladders while another proceeds behind you! "Step down in quality" quite literally...

[TheLad]

The virological evidence is pretty overwhelming that it wasn't schools, it was holidays and hospitality. The timing is coincidental. Considering how densely packed schools are, spread in schools has been surprisingly small and the cases that have happened in schools have overwhelmingly been contracted outside school.
In any case, closing schools is - and was - massively disruptive and harmful to the education of kids who don't have good home circumstances. That's why schools never actually fully closed and some kids attended throughout. It's logical to have them among the very last things to close.
It's just obviously wrong to say decisions have been based on politics rather than science. All the decisions are based on science but it's not the sole consideration and they have to balance other things like the economy, education, exercise and mental health. Let's be honest, on the list of things that matters non-league football is very low. It's lower than hairdressers, which employs far, far more people. That said, there's absolutely no way I'd go for haircut just now. 

If you think opening things back over Xmas is based on science, rather than political, then you are off your head.