No crowds?

[HibeeJibee]

Down south clubs below National League will now be permitted home fans upto 15% of capacity in all tiers.

EPL/EFL/NL remain 4,000 in tier 1 areas... 2,000 in tier 2... closed in tier 3.

[Dev]

17 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Worth adding... £10,000,000 divided equally among ~250 clubs currently playing across senior (except Premiership), junior and top half of womens football could represent ~£40,000 each .

More realistically...

I think everyone would accept that clubs in Scottish Championship needs more support that clubs in North Caledonian League - at extreme ends of the scale you might be talking adding and subtracting a zero. Some support should also be directed towards governing bodies, clubs which have mothballed, amateur football, etc. Nonetheless it shows there is plenty cash to make a real and appropriate difference right down the levels. Reading a bit about how the equivalent money has been used in England (where no governmental support was given to EPL or EFL at all) that seems to be the case: no lions share being gobbled-up by the elite and the rest left with buttons. Lets hope it works similarly here.

Must say I'm impressed that rugby has managed to secure £15M in grants and £5M in loans. Presumably this must be largely connected to internationals. They only have 2 full-time clubs, 6 part-time and 100-odd amateur.

Presumably all clubs at the same level will receive a grant of the same size regardless of whether or not they've gone into abeyance this season? Clubs in abeyance still have costs to pay even in abeyance.

[Auld Heid]

If it's administered in a similar manner to the help given to hospitality then it will be a car crash outcome.

Indeed the suggested levels could see individual football clubs get more than individual hospitality venues.

[Burnieman]

Around 60 people watching over the fence at todays game. We really need this nonsense to end and to get fans back inside grounds at this level, they're safer inside.

[Ginaro]

Banff hardware shops sold out of ladders

 

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Banff hardware shops sold out of ladders

 

It's getting really dangerous now

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Around 60 people watching over the fence at todays game. We really need this nonsense to end and to get fans back inside grounds at this level, they're safer inside.

A handful of people watching over the fence is no problem, but 60? Don't blame the authorities, blame those who turned up, saw that there was no way to watch the game while maintaining social distancing and then stayed anyway. It's selfish and irresponsible and nobody is to blame but them.

There have been far more Covid deaths in West Lothian in the second wave than the first and we've had 222 positive cases in the past week. My kid hasn't been able to attend his school in Blackburn for 2 weeks, in his Highers year. How hard is it not to go to a football game during the worst pandemic since 1918?

[TheLad]

A handful of people watching over the fence is no problem, but 60? Don't blame the authorities, blame those who turned up, saw that there was no way to watch the game while maintaining social distancing and then stayed anyway. It's selfish and irresponsible and nobody is to blame but them.
There have been far more Covid deaths in West Lothian in the second wave than the first and we've had 222 positive cases in the past week. My kid hasn't been able to attend his school in Blackburn for 2 weeks, in his Highers year. How hard is it not to go to a football game during the worst pandemic since 1918?

The second wave of course started after the return of schools.
The Scottish Government's response to Covid has become more and more political, rather than based on any science.
Schools cannot be safer than standing apart outside. But politically, schools need to be open.
Forget bubbles within schools. It means nothing. The kids mingle as they did before, not socially distant.
Non league football crowds should be tried out before any premier league grounds.
Going to football must be safer than a hairdresser yet that was opened up so much quicker.
I think the SFA are quite happy for no crowds being in. They dont want any bad press coming down on them if it goes wrong.
I don't think football grounds should be open. But then, I dont think pubs, restaurants, cafes, hairdressers, schools, etc should be open either.

[lithgierose]

6 hours ago, GordonS said:

A handful of people watching over the fence is no problem, but 60? Don't blame the authorities, blame those who turned up, saw that there was no way to watch the game while maintaining social distancing and then stayed anyway. It's selfish and irresponsible and nobody is to blame but them.

There have been far more Covid deaths in West Lothian in the second wave than the first and we've had 222 positive cases in the past week. My kid hasn't been able to attend his school in Blackburn for 2 weeks, in his Highers year. How hard is it not to go to a football game during the worst pandemic since 1918?

How many cases in Linlithgow? 

[Andy groundhopper]

Always going to be people who won't be stopped watching the games, whatever the risk to themselves and others. What happens when some bloke falls off his ladder and breaks a bone ? To ALL F.A and governments, non league football across the UK - stop messing around with hypocrisy and let 300 into the grounds. Masks and distancing, any fan caught acting wrongly, ban the idiots

[Burnieman]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

A handful of people watching over the fence is no problem, but 60? Don't blame the authorities, blame those who turned up, saw that there was no way to watch the game while maintaining social distancing and then stayed anyway. It's selfish and irresponsible and nobody is to blame but them.

There have been far more Covid deaths in West Lothian in the second wave than the first and we've had 222 positive cases in the past week. My kid hasn't been able to attend his school in Blackburn for 2 weeks, in his Highers year. How hard is it not to go to a football game during the worst pandemic since 1918?

Go and ask them, these people are clearly desperate to watch a game of football, I would be doing exactly the same in their position.  Nobody makes them turn up to peer over a fence where part of their view is obstructed, but they do. It's been 9 months.

The point is of course, they're much safer inside the ground than doing this. This is another failure of Government and any consequences lie squarely at their feet.

Meanwhile, Livingston (indoor) shopping centre will be mobbed today.  Who is kidding who here?

Edited December 13, 2020 by Burnieman

[Dev]

2 hours ago, TheLad said:

The second wave of course started after the return of schools.
The Scottish Government's response to Covid has become more and more political, rather than based on any science.
Schools cannot be safer than standing apart outside. But politically, schools need to be open.
Forget bubbles within schools. It means nothing. The kids mingle as they did before, not socially distant.
Non league football crowds should be tried out before any premier league grounds.
Going to football must be safer than a hairdresser yet that was opened up so much quicker.
I think the SFA are quite happy for no crowds being in. They dont want any bad press coming down on them if it goes wrong.
I don't think football grounds should be open. But then, I dont think pubs, restaurants, cafes, hairdressers, schools, etc should be open either.

Just look at the disastrous Covid-19 situation in Wales where only a handful of clubs have played this season It is clear that the second phase of covid is down to kids and students going to school and college etc. I see why this was considered to be a "necessary" sacrifice of the vulnerable in many countries (not only here) but it has been extremely hard on the real victims - the vulnerable who have died or are scarred for life.

The SP and other Governments need to get real about the risk presented by outdoor activities including semi-pro and amateur football where attendances are frequently anything from nil to low hundreds, all occupying open spaces.

Pro football is, I believe, a different matter and needs more care before significant numbers return to watch live matches. I think that all levels of football have been treated as being the same risk. This is a gross error of understanding and judgment. However, I suspect that what you say about the SFA not wanting bad press coming down on them is correct - and it is understandable. However they should be close enough to the game to understand that treating pros and non-pro clubs alike is not appropriate - but there again!

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, lithgierose said:

How many cases in Linlithgow? 

A lot fewer than Blackburn, Bathgate, Armadale, Whitburn and the more deprived bits of Livingston, which have really driven the cases. It's the worst-hit area anywhere in the Lothians.

FWIW a guy in my work died of Covid last week, leaves a wife and two young children. He was getting treatment for cancer but most people survive what he had, especially at his age. I didn't know him well but I know people who did. So my tolerance for the "we have to live with it" crowd is even lower than usual.

[GordonS]

5 hours ago, Burnieman said:

Go and ask them, these people are clearly desperate to watch a game of football, I would be doing exactly the same in their position.  Nobody makes them turn up to peer over a fence where part of their view is obstructed, but they do. It's been 9 months.

The point is of course, they're much safer inside the ground than doing this. This is another failure of Government and any consequences lie squarely at their feet.

Meanwhile, Livingston (indoor) shopping centre will be mobbed today.  Who is kidding who here?

The idea that they're so "desperate" to watch a football game that they'll break the law and endanger people's lives seems to be a pretty strong argument in favour of what I am saying. One thing this pandemic has shown up is how immature lots of British people are. You look at how they've responded in places like Taiwan and you realise that we're a big bunch of spoiled weans.

I don't think it's true that they would be safer inside the ground because they'd still be passing through a single turnstile and a single exit gate. They'd be using toilets and, as we've seen from England, they would not all be observing distancing inside the ground. But that's beside the point; the ground wasn't open, and everyone who stood within 2m of others to watch through the fence is entirely and solely responsible for their own choice.

I've no doubt Livingston shopping centre will be busy today, but as far as I'm concerned most of those people are fucking morons. It's completely irrelevant to what happened at Blackburn though and bringing it up is nothing but whataboutery. Retail is (alas) the cornerstone of our economy - non-league football is a pretty much a hobby.

It doesn't matter how much we love that hobby, we should all have a sense of perspective.

Anyway, nobody in the history of this board has ever had the last word when disagreeing with you so I look forward to you repeating yourself in reply, and still not saying anything about the disease situation.

[GordonS]

7 hours ago, TheLad said:

The second wave of course started after the return of schools.
The Scottish Government's response to Covid has become more and more political, rather than based on any science.
Schools cannot be safer than standing apart outside. But politically, schools need to be open.
Forget bubbles within schools. It means nothing. The kids mingle as they did before, not socially distant.
Non league football crowds should be tried out before any premier league grounds.
Going to football must be safer than a hairdresser yet that was opened up so much quicker.
I think the SFA are quite happy for no crowds being in. They dont want any bad press coming down on them if it goes wrong.
I don't think football grounds should be open. But then, I dont think pubs, restaurants, cafes, hairdressers, schools, etc should be open either.

The virological evidence is pretty overwhelming that it wasn't schools, it was holidays and hospitality. The timing is coincidental. Considering how densely packed schools are, spread in schools has been surprisingly small and the cases that have happened in schools have overwhelmingly been contracted outside school.

In any case, closing schools is - and was - massively disruptive and harmful to the education of kids who don't have good home circumstances. That's why schools never actually fully closed and some kids attended throughout. It's logical to have them among the very last things to close.

It's just obviously wrong to say decisions have been based on politics rather than science. All the decisions are based on science but it's not the sole consideration and they have to balance other things like the economy, education, exercise and mental health. Let's be honest, on the list of things that matters non-league football is very low. It's lower than hairdressers, which employs far, far more people. That said, there's absolutely no way I'd go for haircut just now. 

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Always going to be people who won't be stopped watching the games, whatever the risk to themselves and others. What happens when some bloke falls off his ladder and breaks a bone ? To ALL F.A and governments, non league football across the UK - stop messing around with hypocrisy and let 300 into the grounds. Masks and distancing, any fan caught acting wrongly, ban the idiots

Or we could just ban any attention-seeking idiot trying to watch BCD games on a set of step ladders - acting wrongly by any definition - instead: problem solved.

Edited December 13, 2020 by vikingTON

[AlanCamelonfan]

17 minutes ago, GordonS said:

The virological evidence is pretty overwhelming that it wasn't schools, it was holidays and hospitality. The timing is coincidental. Considering how densely packed schools are, spread in schools has been surprisingly small and the cases that have happened in schools have overwhelmingly been contracted outside school.

In any case, closing schools is - and was - massively disruptive and harmful to the education of kids who don't have good home circumstances. That's why schools never actually fully closed and some kids attended throughout. It's logical to have them among the very last things to close.

It's just obviously wrong to say decisions have been based on politics rather than science. All the decisions are based on science but it's not the sole consideration and they have to balance other things like the economy, education, exercise and mental health. Let's be honest, on the list of things that matters non-league football is very low. It's lower than hairdressers, which employs far, far more people. That said, there's absolutely no way I'd go for haircut just now. 

I agree with most of what you say as it's not the schools. But it is political or the weegies would be in lockdown yet they wont let Edinburgh go down to tier 2

[Burnieman]

The idea that they're so "desperate" to watch a football game that they'll break the law and endanger people's lives seems to be a pretty strong argument in favour of what I am saying. One thing this pandemic has shown up is how immature lots of British people are. You look at how they've responded in places like Taiwan and you realise that we're a big bunch of spoiled weans.
I don't think it's true that they would be safer inside the ground because they'd still be passing through a single turnstile and a single exit gate. They'd be using toilets and, as we've seen from England, they would not all be observing distancing inside the ground. But that's beside the point; the ground wasn't open, and everyone who stood within 2m of others to watch through the fence is entirely and solely responsible for their own choice.
I've no doubt Livingston shopping centre will be busy today, but as far as I'm concerned most of those people are fucking morons. It's completely irrelevant to what happened at Blackburn though and bringing it up is nothing but whataboutery. Retail is (alas) the cornerstone of our economy - non-league football is a pretty much a hobby.
It doesn't matter how much we love that hobby, we should all have a sense of perspective.
Anyway, nobody in the history of this board has ever had the last word when disagreeing with you so I look forward to you repeating yourself in reply, and still not saying anything about the disease situation.

Sanctimonious drivel doesn't even cover it.

[Crow]

18 minutes ago, virginton said:

Or we could just ban any attention-seeking idiot trying to watch BCD games on a set of step ladders - acting wrongly by any definition - instead: problem solved.

I’m not so sure about attention seeking just people keen to get out and see a game.

I managed to get to 6/7 games down south in August and September then thankfully being involved at a club we’ve had at least 1 game every week since mid September. It would have been one long old drag without it.

[Burnieman]

The virological evidence is pretty overwhelming that it wasn't schools, it was holidays and hospitality. The timing is coincidental. Considering how densely packed schools are, spread in schools has been surprisingly small and the cases that have happened in schools have overwhelmingly been contracted outside school.
In any case, closing schools is - and was - massively disruptive and harmful to the education of kids who don't have good home circumstances. That's why schools never actually fully closed and some kids attended throughout. It's logical to have them among the very last things to close.
It's just obviously wrong to say decisions have been based on politics rather than science. All the decisions are based on science but it's not the sole consideration and they have to balance other things like the economy, education, exercise and mental health. Let's be honest, on the list of things that matters non-league football is very low. It's lower than hairdressers, which employs far, far more people. That said, there's absolutely no way I'd go for haircut just now. 

If you think all decisions are based on science then you aren't paying attention.

Jason Leitch has already said several times that admitting limited crowds at non league level isn't a big risk at all. He has gone quite quiet on that recently, because he's probably been told to wind his neck in on statements like that.