Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
mcruic

Structure for 2021/2022

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

In all honesty, yes I think Talbot will be pleased with the way it has worked out. However, bear in mind it is based on last seasons PPG standings so being top of the league that's how it has worked out for the champions.

I did think you'd have been all over it like a cheap suit when I saw it, J. And to think you've accused Talbot fans of being obsessed with Darvel.

I Think there is no chance the league will finish mark but how can u say a team can be be champions if they only play their main challengers once when they have all played each other twice , it’s no a very even playing field 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No they dont and no they shouldn't. The clues are in the name, SOUTH and WEST.

Tell that to Caledonian Braves Reserves and Kello.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/09/2020 at 12:54, rncaa said:

Ignoring the anorak who started this thread what an absolute cluster f**k this whole thing is. 

Cheers for the "anorak" jibe, ya jobby.  Get oot the thread if you want to ignore the person who started it, ya complete eejit!   The sheer ignorance of people never ceases to amaze me...

 

Edited by mcruic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/09/2020 at 17:12, craigkillie said:


Tell that to Caledonian Braves Reserves and Kello.

Southwest (D&G) is part of West, just as Southeast (Borders) is part of East.  There isn't any need for a Tier 6 league in the SW, except for ancient history.  Their level of football doesn't merit it, and there are ample results to show this.  It will probably continue though.  At the end of the day, it doesn't make any difference, as it's very unlikely any team will ever get promoted unless they improve drastically.  I can't see Threave or Abbey Vale beating the likes of Auchinleck or Hill of Beath in play offs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks a decent set up just to try and start/get season finished somehow. We have to give this 2 or 3 years before it all settles down - with the big guns getting promoted, leaving the league a fairly level playing field. PS A lot of maximum crowds in England at the weekend, excellent stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WoS League is already a fairly level playing field, and has been for years as the juniors, split into 4 divisions.  The problem is that it's on the same level (Tier 6) as a league that would do well to beat Tier 9 teams.

It's the equivalent, in England, of putting the Essex County League at the same level as the Conference South, and giving teams in both an equal chance of promotion to Tier 5.

It will take more than 2 or 3 years - the WoS League is a Tier 5 league in terms of playing strength, and probably better than the Highland and Lowland leagues if you take average playing strength across the league into account.  With only (possibly 1) club going up per year, depending on licensing requirements, it could be a full 10-15 years before the top clubs in the West reach their level.

Edited by mcruic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, mcruic said:

The WoS League is already a fairly level playing field, and has been for years as the juniors, split into 4 divisions.  The problem is that it's on the same level (Tier 6) as a league that would do well to beat Tier 9 teams.

Except that's not a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Except that's not a problem.

Nothing is a problem compared with global inequality or the fate of this planet.

If you want to see a decent and balanced pyramid structure, it is a problem.  If you don't want to see that, then it isn't a problem.  Simple.

 

 

Edited by mcruic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mcruic said:

Nothing is a problem compared with global inequality or the fate of this planet.

If you want to see a decent and balanced pyramid structure, it is a problem.  If you don't want to see that, then it isn't a problem.  Simple.

There's more that goes into a balanced pyramid than that otherwise it would be a ladder with national leagues all the way down.

Does the South take away an automatic promotion spot from any other league at Tier 6? No. Are we at a point where the South champion realistically gets promoted only if they prove they are the better team on the field and not on paper? Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There's more that goes into a balanced pyramid than that otherwise it would be a ladder with national leagues all the way down.

Does the South take away an automatic promotion spot from any other league at Tier 6? No. Are we at a point where the South champion realistically gets promoted only if they prove they are the better team on the field and not on paper? Yes.

Ach, in the name o the wee man.  Nae point trying to explain anything.  Suffice to say, your first statement is false.  My point stands - SoS League should not be at tier 6 in any serious attempt to create a balanced pyramid.

So, to reiterate:
It's a problem if you think there should be a balanced pyramid.
It's not a problem if you don't think there should be a balanced pyramid.

You are in the latter group, and so don't see it as a problem.  I am in the former group and see it as a problem.

There's nothing more to be said about it.

 

Edited by mcruic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, mcruic said:

Ach, in the name o the wee man.  Nae point trying to explain anything.  Suffice to say, your first statement is false.  My point stands - SoS League should not be at tier 6 in any serious attempt to create a balanced pyramid.

So, to reiterate:
It's a problem if you think there should be a balanced pyramid.
It's not a problem if you don't think there should be a balanced pyramid.

You are in the latter group, and so don't see it as a problem.  I am in the former group and see it as a problem.

There's nothing more to be said about it.

 

Nobody knows what Tier 6 actually means. The current tables aren't static and are the way they are because clubs stayed at a lower level due to personal preference. Aka being Junior.

I remember back in 2018 when all the moves East happened there were some that went "Oh, the EoS Premier's just going to be the East Superleague minus Tayside. That'll be great." Except off go Bonnyrigg without ever playing in it and now Bo'ness have played a single season in it. Both are unlikely to return to the EoSFL anytime soon, if at all. Chances are they'd end up in the SPFL before the EoSFL again.

The same is true in the West and they aren't likely to see anyone come back down for a while due to the geographic spread of the weaker Lowland League clubs.

The idea of just slotting the SoSFL at some step of the WoSFL has problems from both sides. WoSFL giving up promotion spot to their own membership from that side.

The key one from the SoSFL is that due to the infrastructure of D&G travelling West isn't much better than East. Getting into the West top tier doesn't equal a financial windfall to offset the increased travelling costs. Look at the attendances that Rossvale were getting last year.

Right now the South doesn't take away from any other league promotion wise. The West & East Premiers are filled with teams that aren't Tier 6, there are clubs that should be at least one tier higher. I'm not saying the way things are now are balanced. I'm saying most suggestions right now are permanent solutions for what might be temporary problems.

 

 

 

Edited by FairWeatherFan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Where would you fit the SoSL into the WoSFL?

I only skimmed is initial post last night and woke up to it amended. I think was roughly like how the Ayrshire Division worked in the old West Region. So it wasn't at the very bottom.

I don't think the current structure will stay the same, but it depends on too many moving parts to suggest something. You've got the SPFL, LL, HL, WoSFL, EoSFL, SoSFL and i'm sure for every suggestion there will be someone that will be against it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main problem with the SoS, apart from the low level of football being played in comparison with other leagues at the same level,  is the dearth of teams - 12 teams and nobody coming in from below.  And if a Sunday amateur team wants to come in, they automatically find themselves just 2 promotions away from the SPFL.  But as you pointed out, the SoS isn't the main problem:  although it is certainly one of them.  Among the other problems are the amount of time it will take the decent clubs to find their level due to the small number of promotion places to the Lowland League and beyond.  In any case, the tables are not static, as you say, but even after teams have found their level, in the current structure you'd still have a vastly weaker SoS League at Tier 6 compared to the EoS and WoS equivalents.

I don't see any problems with putting the SoS within the WoS structure.  If Border teams can travel to Fife and Perthshire, then there isn't an issue.  If an SoS team gets promoted to the LL, they will have much more travelling to do anyway.  There's no travel issue until an SoS team accepts promotion anyway.  And they'd have travel issues no matter what league they were promoted into.

Putting the SoS in the WoS also doesn't take away a promotion opportunity - if the SoS team refused promotion, an extra team would be promoted from the other feeder league.

Example:

WoS North feeder
1. Rutherglen
2. Petershill
3. Shettleston

WoS South feeder
1. Threave
2, Abbey Vale
3. Mid Annandale

Threave refuses promotion, Petershill is promoted instead.

Or if there were 3 feeders (Central, Ayrshire, SoS), there would be a play-off between the Central and Ayrshire runners-up to take the place vacated by the SoS team not accepting promotion.

 

 

 

 

Edited by mcruic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I only skimmed is initial post last night and woke up to it amended. I think was roughly like how the Ayrshire Division worked in the old West Region. So it wasn't at the very bottom.

I don't think the current structure will stay the same, but it depends on too many moving parts to suggest something. You've got the SPFL, LL, HL, WoSFL, EoSFL, SoSFL and i'm sure for every suggestion there will be someone that will be against it.

What do the SoSL teams bring to the party, other few long journeys on a winter day.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 14 teams in the South of Scotland League.

The main problem with the SoS, apart from the low level of football being played in comparison with other leagues at the same level,  is the dearth of teams - 12 teams and nobody coming in from below.  And if a Sunday amateur team wants to come in, they automatically find themselves just 2 promotions away from the SPFL.  But as you pointed out, the SoS isn't the main problem:  although it is certainly one of them.  Among the other problems are the amount of time it will take the decent clubs to find their level due to the small number of promotion places to the Lowland League and beyond.  In any case, the tables are not static, as you say, but even after teams have found their level, in the current structure you'd still have a vastly weaker SoS League at Tier 6 compared to the EoS and WoS equivalents.
I don't see any problems with putting the SoS within the WoS structure.  If Border teams can travel to Fife and Perthshire, then there isn't an issue.  If an SoS team gets promoted to the LL, they will have much more travelling to do anyway.  There's no travel issue until an SoS team accepts promotion anyway.  And they'd have travel issues no matter what league they were promoted into.
Putting the SoS in the WoS also doesn't take away a promotion opportunity - if the SoS team refused promotion, an extra team would be promoted from the other feeder league.
Example:
WoS North feeder
1. Rutherglen
2. Petershill
3. Shettleston

WoS South feeder
1. Threave
2, Abbey Vale
3. Mid Annandale

Threave refuses promotion, Petershill is promoted instead.
Or if there were 3 feeders (Central, Ayrshire, SoS), there would be a play-off between the Central and Ayrshire runners-up to take the place vacated by the SoS team not accepting promotion.

 
 
 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

I'd hope they'd bring competition if not fans.

Girvan were a middling SoSFL side when they joined the West Region. Only won one SoSFL title back in 1990. They were able to get to the Superleague divisions a couple of times and had that one year in the Premier recently when it was 12 teams.

It's not like any one team would be dominate, but they would be spread across the divisions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Girvan were a middling SoSFL side when they joined the West Region. Only won one SoSFL title back in 1990. They were able to get to the Superleague divisions a couple of times and had that one year in the Premier recently when it was 12 teams.

It's not like any one team would be dominate, but they would be spread across the divisions.

Maybe the conferences but they wouldn't get near tier 6.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...