Scottish Infrastructure

[Lurkst]

36 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Inverclyde is effectively Greater Greenock anyway, so adding the rest takes us to 13. 

Don't know if it's an accident of history but I've always been impressed by the amount of railway stations in Inverclyde. Edinburgh city only has 12 in total!

 

[DiegoDiego]

Instead of connecting Fort William to Inverness via the A82, why not take the A86 route and just connect Tulloch with Newtonmore? Probably similar engineering difficulties along parts of the route and not as direct but about half the distance to build. Dunblane to Crianlarich would be another good shortcut as well.

Either way they're rightfully low down the list of priorities when you've places like Peterhead unconnected to the network and huge chunks of D&G remaining the land which infrastructure forgot.

[vikingTON]

On 14/01/2021 at 23:20, NewBornBairn said:

Wemyss Bay Station is quite a surprise if you go in

The view of a crisp pint in the Station Bar with a real coal fire burning isn't too bad either.

[invergowrie arab]

Even pre Covid commuter lines were  a waste of time whilst our clown shoes approach to climate change was happening 

E.g. govt financial incentives for companies to reduce their carbon footprint incentivising companies in Edinburgh closing offices where 500 people got heat and light in one building and dispersing the heat and light to 500 different buildings within 30 miles which don't show up on the carbon ledger 

[Hedgecutter]

On 15/01/2021 at 00:12, Lurkst said:

Don't know if it's an accident of history but I've always been impressed by the amount of railway stations in Inverclyde. Edinburgh city only has 12 in total!

Aberdeen City has two in total.

[vikingTON]

5 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Aberdeen City has two in total.

So it's not a real city then.

[invergowrie arab]

Dundee has two but pre local government re-organisation in the 90s had 5.

Monifieth was never really Dundee but you could hit a golf ball from Invergowrie and Balmossie to Dundee so they count IMVHO.

The Dundee East Westminster  parliamentary constituency has 7 Dundee, Broughty Ferry, Balmossie, Monifieth, Barry Links, Carnoustie Golf Street and Carnoustie but that's clutching at straws 

Edited January 16, 2021 by invergowrie arab

[101]

8 hours ago, Hedgecutter said:

Aberdeen City has two in total.

Dunfermline has 2 ffs

[Newbornbairn]

50 minutes ago, 101 said:

Dunfermline has 2 ffs

Naw, it's only got one. Dunfermline. 

[TheScarf]

The true test of how good your town is, is how many high schools does it have.

[Cyclizine]

On 14/01/2021 at 19:34, Academically Deficient said:

That is a most interesting question. The answer depends upon whether one considers Fort Matilda to be in Gourock or Greenock. A secondary consideration is whether IBM halt is, in a meaningful sense, a conventional service stop

 

9 hours ago, Hedgecutter said:

Aberdeen City has two in total.

This is the pedantry I'm here for

[Le Tout P'ti FC]

Just spotted my first tram since March. The tram has always seemed a bit irrelevant to my life, I've only had cause to use it two or three times, even then on of tnose was just to take a wee shotty for the sake of it.

The sight of the tram prompted me to check the passenger numbers for this project, which I think is pretty generally derided as pointless.

Quite surprised to see numbers going up markedly. 5.2m > 5.7m > 6.7m > 7.3m > 7.5m in last few published years.

Obviously will take a dunt for COVID reasons.

Not the white elephant I'd imagined it to be.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 14/01/2021 at 14:44, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

...Aberdeen would surely benefit from more local stations as well.

Surprising some have not been added for the new Montrose to Inverurie crossrail service. People tend to overdo it on criticising the Beeching cuts but not keeping rail infrastructure mothballed so a Deeside commuter service would still be possible in future definitely doesn't look too clever in the context of the present day. 

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

The true test of how good your town is, is how many high schools does it have.

Youuuuung girl, get out of my mind 

[LongTimeLurker]

4 hours ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

...Not the white elephant I'd imagined it to be.

Extending it to Newhaven should help. The Princes Street section was the difficult and expensive part. Hooking up more lines to that should be easier over the next few decades now that piece of infrastructure is in place. Would have been crazy to stop with just the one line out to the airport.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said:

Just spotted my first tram since March. The tram has always seemed a bit irrelevant to my life, I've only had cause to use it two or three times, even then on of tnose was just to take a wee shotty for the sake of it.

The sight of the tram prompted me to check the passenger numbers for this project, which I think is pretty generally derided as pointless.

Quite surprised to see numbers going up markedly. 5.2m > 5.7m > 6.7m > 7.3m > 7.5m in last few published years.

Obviously will take a dunt for COVID reasons.

Not the white elephant I'd imagined it to be.

I used it most days back in olden times when you actually went to work, you're right, it's definitely far from a white elephant. It's rammed in the evening rush hour and is really well used by folk who work at Edinburgh Park. The park and ride at Ingliston is very popular and it has really good connections at Edinburgh Park Station and Haymarket, though Edinburgh Gateway station is under-used. There are stacks of new houses being built at the Gyle and the tram is good for a lot of them too.

To put the numbers in context, at an average 20,000 passengers a day it's more used than the Aberdeen by-pass, which carries 13,000 vehicles per day.

Pushing it down to Newhaven will be a huge help and if any of the excellent plans to create a southside loop come to pass then it will be properly transformational.

The main transport problem in Edinburgh is that 9-5 office and retail jobs are spread all over the city (because of decades of bad planning and a failure to understand how cities work), instead of clustered in the centre like Glasgow. No public transport network can go everywhere, they work best when you have a lower number of higher-volume routes. Edinburgh needs to create a Dutch-standard cycling network, that's the best way for them to get folk out of cars.

[DiegoDiego]

Edinburgh needs to create a Dutch-standard cycling network, that's the best way for them to get folk out of cars.

I've not much experience of The Netherlands, but in Denmark bikes work far better than they ever will in Edinburgh for three reasons:

1. Geography. Edinburgh is hilly as f**k you can't just slowly roll away when the light goes green if you're facing a 10% incline. People just won't be fucked with that.

2. Existing infrastructure. Danish cities have loads of wide boulevards where you can forego a lane of traffic for some bikes without much issue. Edinburgh mostly has narrow roads. Also, UNESCO cobbles.

3. Weather. Edinburgh is fucking windy and often wet.

[Ginaro]

15 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

I've not much experience of The Netherlands, but in Denmark bikes work far better than they ever will in Edinburgh for three reasons:

1. Geography. Edinburgh is hilly as f**k you can't just slowly roll away when the light goes green if you're facing a 10% incline. People just won't be fucked with that.

2. Existing infrastructure. Danish cities have loads of wide boulevards where you can forego a lane of traffic for some bikes without much issue. Edinburgh mostly has narrow roads. Also, UNESCO cobbles.

3. Weather. Edinburgh is fucking windy and often wet.

1. E-bikes can help with hills. And even without them if you have segregated cycleways then you've got your own space to take your time to get up a hill.

2. Edinburgh has a good number of roads with 4+ lanes that can have a cycleway added - and if you put cycle infrastructure on the main, direct roads where people want to go that's half the battle.

3. Amsterdam has more rain and Copenhagen has harsher winters than Edinburgh. Again if it's windy and you're going slower then better to be on a segregated cycleway.

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, GordonS said:

I used it most days back in olden times when you actually went to work, you're right, it's definitely far from a white elephant. It's rammed in the evening rush hour and is really well used by folk who work at Edinburgh Park. The park and ride at Ingliston is very popular and it has really good connections at Edinburgh Park Station and Haymarket, though Edinburgh Gateway station is under-used. There are stacks of new houses being built at the Gyle and the tram is good for a lot of them too.

To put the numbers in context, at an average 20,000 passengers a day it's more used than the Aberdeen by-pass, which carries 13,000 vehicles per day.

Pushing it down to Newhaven will be a huge help and if any of the excellent plans to create a southside loop come to pass then it will be properly transformational.

The main transport problem in Edinburgh is that 9-5 office and retail jobs are spread all over the city (because of decades of bad planning and a failure to understand how cities work), instead of clustered in the centre like Glasgow. No public transport network can go everywhere, they work best when you have a lower number of higher-volume routes. Edinburgh needs to create a Dutch-standard cycling network, that's the best way for them to get folk out of cars.

Cars, trains, buses, trams, cycles why don't you build some canals while you're at it?

[DiegoDiego]

1. E-bikes can help with hills. And even without them if you have segregated cycleways then you've got your own space to take your time to get up a hill.
2. Edinburgh has a good number of roads with 4+ lanes that can have a cycleway added - and if you put cycle infrastructure on the main, direct roads where people want to go that's half the battle.
3. Amsterdam has more rain and Copenhagen has harsher winters than Edinburgh. Again if it's windy and you're going slower then better to be on a segregated cycleway.

1. With Copenhagen levels of uptake you don't have your own space to get up a hill as there are hunners of pissed off folk behind you trying to get past. For the cost of an ebike you might as well use an ebus or ecar.
2. Fair point, but as has been mentioned further up the thread, with Edinburgh people want to go all over the place from every direction so it's not an easy task.
3. I've lived in both Sjaelland and Edinburgh. I'd take a Copenhagen winter over an Edinburgh one any day. The wind in Edinburgh is funneled up its main thoroughfares due to narrow streets and topography. It'd be a rare day I'd leave the bike at home due to weather.

Perhaps I'm projecting, but I think you're underestimating how little the general public enjoys cycling uphill against the wind after a day at work. Couple that with the phenomenal rate of unfit "at risk" adults and you could chuck all the money you'd like at the problem and still never get close to Copenhagen's numbers. Lack of infrastructure isn't what's stopping students from cycling from Marchmont to Chambers Street, people just don't fucking want to.

I'm all for more people cycling but that's not where the big gains will be made in Edinburgh over the next twenty years.