Stalingrad

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

The Soviet monuments in Berlin are so great. Can't imagine what it would do to the British psyche to have massive monuments to the behemoth that rolled through your country less than a century ago all over the place.

The Slavin memorial in Bratislava will always remind Slovak fascists of the time thry got mauled at Stalingrad with the other jobbers because it's a Soviet war grave as well, which was a very clever piece of work from the Red Army while it was dropping into the neighbourhood.

The Palace of Culture in Warsaw is also a good laugh to see Poles still trying to work out what to do with Uncle Joe's special gift to their nation. 

[tongue_tied_danny]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

The Palace of Culture in Warsaw is also a good laugh to see Poles still trying to work out what to do with Uncle Joe's special gift to their nation. 

The Warsaw Uprising museum is well worth a visit. Easily the best museum that I've been to.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

You know I watched a lecture recently from a university in America.  It was an American historian type giving a lecture to a bunch of American students.

No way!

[Archie McSquackle]

The scale of what happened at Stalingrad, and the eastern front in general, is almost incomprehensible. The other fronts of the war were basically just sideshows, yet the gammons would have you believe that Hitler was beaten by Churchill and Captain Tom, with Vera Lynn on backing vocals.

I watched The World At War with my son as an attempt at home learning during lockdown. It's available on catch-up from the Yesterday channel. Episode 9 is on Stalingrad and 11 is on Leningrad which is just as brutal. The footage and interviews are just incredible.

[Shotgun]

3 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I thought it was great the way he set them straight on it.

What’s frustrating is that America’s gammons, and there are a lot of them, would use this story to illustrate how the education system is brainwashing our young people with Marxist anti-American     propaganda. 
That it’s true is entirely beside the point. John Wayne won the war with the help of God, mom and apple pie. 

[beefybake]

3 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

You know I watched a lecture recently from a university in America.  It was an American historian type giving a lecture to a bunch of American students.

He started off by saying the way you learned about WWII is completely wrong.  Russia defeated the Nazis. America lost 400 thousand dead in WWII, Russia lost 28 million.  8 out of every 11 German troops that were killed were killed by the Russians. For every one death the USA suffered Russia had seventy.

I thought it was great the way he set them straight on it.

I wonder if, in America,  where everyone knows about the 55,000 US dead in Vietnam,

does anyone ever mention the 3,000,000 Vietnamese dead.

[Lofarl]

You just have to watch footage from the Nedelin disaster to know that film scene is pure shite.  They couldn’t even launch a simple rocket while engulfed in flames.  Let alone charge Nazi hordes armed to the teeth.  Fucking Moscowood.

[git-intae-thum]

As many of the above posters have alluded too, the Eastern front is just off the scale in so many respects.

For example, in just one offensive, at Seelow heights, the Soviet artillery fired 500,000 shells and rockets at the German positions in just half an hour.

It was the heaviest artillery barrage in history.

Amazingly it actually did not cause as many casualties as you would think. The Germans, being clued up about the Soviet assault tactics had pulled the majority of their troops back out the front line and left only outposts of men to hold up the Soviet advance.

Still...Imagine the terror of being one of the unlucky ones left in the front trenches, stuck on the receiving end of that!!.... Unimaginable......and by that stage of the war the German defenders were mainly young boys and auld men pressganged to the front.

For comparison:

"The British bombardment at the Battle of the Somme in World War one boasted 1,537 guns which fired 1.5 million shells over 4 days. The Soviet crews at the Seelow Heights could have hit that total in about 90 minutes."

[Dunning1874]

15 hours ago, bennett said:

If the world at war ever gets remade, would you be up for narrating it?

 

I like to think World at War went through multiple candidates for narrator, dismissing each one by one as they pronounced Stalin phonetically, then were sold on Laurence Olivier the second he said Schtaleen.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Dunning1874

[Fullerene]

12 hours ago, resk said:

The scale of what happened at Stalingrad, and the eastern front in general, is almost incomprehensible. The other fronts of the war were basically just sideshows, yet the gammons would have you believe that Hitler was beaten by Churchill and Captain Tom, with Vera Lynn on backing vocals.

You say the Russians were a big part of WW2.  That can't be.  I watched Where Eagles Dare and didn't see any Russians.  Same with Kelly's Heroes, the Dirty Dozen,  Guns of Navarone and Tobruk.

Maybe Bridge over the River Kwai but actually that was the Japanese.

Maybe you are thinking of some other world war.

Nice statue though. 

[Fullerene]

8 hours ago, beefybake said:

I wonder if, in America,  where everyone knows about the 55,000 US dead in Vietnam,

does anyone ever mention the 3,000,000 Vietnamese dead.

Every Vietnam War film I can think of is about being an American fighting a pointless war in a faraway land.  The natives barely come into it.  You could replace them with alien space monsters and still have basically the same story.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Every Vietnam War film I can think of is about being an American fighting a pointless war in a faraway land.  The natives barely come into it.  You could replace them with alien space monsters and still have basically the same story.

I enjoyed Young Sheldon's take on it.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

If you ever get a chance, check out the Russian film from a few years back - it's just called Stalingrad (or Сталинград!)

At first viewing some of it seems comically far-fetched, like this scene where the Russians charge German positions - WHILE ON FUCKING FIRE - but the majority of it probably wasn't that far off the mark...by all accounts it was a truly horrific battle.

 

 

Those were the lucky ones. You've no idea how cold it was.

[Academically Deficient]

6 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I like to think World at War went through multiple candidates for narrator, dismissing each one by one as they pronounced Stalin phonetically, then were sold on Laurence Oliver the second he said Schtaleen.

He had a distinctive pronunciation of Ukraine as well.

"The Ukraiyyne" kinda.

[Mr Waldo]

13 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

8 out of every 11 German troops that were killed were killed by the Russians.

Part of this is probably due to them both thinking the other were sub-human and, although figures vary wildly, a huge percentage died after being captured. Not a nice front to be on.

[Boo Khaki]

15 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

You know I watched a lecture recently from a university in America.  It was an American historian type giving a lecture to a bunch of American students.

He started off by saying the way you learned about WWII is completely wrong.  Russia defeated the Nazis. America lost 400 thousand dead in WWII, Russia lost 28 million.  8 out of every 11 German troops that were killed were killed by the Russians. For every one death the USA suffered Russia had seventy.

I thought it was great the way he set them straight on it.

It's not just Yanks guilty of this. 

Every time there's a D-Day memorial or event the BBC pitches up to pronounce it 'the day WWII turned' etc. They totally ignore the fact that by June 1944 Ivan had been kicking the Nazi's arses black and blue for the best part of a year, had totally 'liberated' all Soviet territory, and was busy steamrollering the bulk of what remained of the German military in Poland.

German defeat was utterly inevitable well before June 1944, but that doesn't stop the BBC carrying on like it was the single most significant event of the entire conflict.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Boo Khaki

[D.A.F.C]

You say the Russians were a big part of WW2.  That can't be.  I watched Where Eagles Dare and didn't see any Russians.  Same with Kelly's Heroes, the Dirty Dozen,  Guns of Navarone and Tobruk.
Maybe Bridge over the River Kwai but actually that was the Japanese.
Maybe you are thinking of some other world war.
Nice statue though.  [emoji4]

Respect their authoritaay

[NotThePars]

Imagine if Stalin hadn’t held Zhukov and co back when they were on the outskirts of Berlin. Possibly Red Flags over the Eiffel Tower?

[renton]

3 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Imagine if Stalin hadn’t held Zhukov and co back when they were on the outskirts of Berlin. Possibly Red Flags over the Eiffel Tower?

When the Russians made it to Berlin, the Allies had bridge heads over the Elbe. The Western allies could, in all liklihood have beaten the Russians to Berlin, had they so wished.

Edited September 10, 2020 by renton

[NotThePars]

When the Russians made it to Berlin, the Allies had bridge heads over the Elbe. The Western allies could, in all liklihood have beaten the Russians to Berlin, had they so wished.

I think in Zhukov’s memoirs it’s claimed that Stalin initially ordered the storming of Berlin on February 5th for the 15-16th when they were 40 miles from Berlin across open country then reneged on them as he didn’t want to ruffle the feathers of the Allies hence why it occurred, what, two months later? It’s clear that Stalin and co felt they had held back.