FC London Scottish

[RabidAI]

Morning.

Could anyone see a football version of rugby's London Scottish F. C. being a success?

I was wondering if it would act as a sort of rallying point to ex-pat Scots, and so may have full-time potential with decent-enough crowds.

If it was in the English leagues, maybe it could help develop young Scots as loanees learning their trade away from home.

If it was in the Scottish leagues (because England-based Berwick and Tweedmouth are), then an additional full-time club could be welcome. Two away trips to London per club per league season might not be that bad a thing, either.

I don't know if they'd need a different name from London Scottish, since that's taken (London Scots might do it), or if they could be affiliated with the original rugby club?

Thanks.

[ahemps]

I think the SRU help finance the rugby team. I don't know if the SFA would see this as something they would help with so it may need to be something done independently. There are way more English play for the team than Scots though.

If they only pull in crowds of around a few thousand then what level are they realistically going to get to? If it's not to at least championship level then what benefit would it be?

It is an interesting idea.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

There was a football equivalent before WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Caledonians_F.C.

Didn't reemerge after the war in a St Bernards and Kings Park sort of way.

[RabidAI]

1 hour ago, ahemps said:

I think the SRU help finance the rugby team. I don't know if the SFA would see this as something they would help with so it may need to be something done independently. There are way more English play for the team than Scots though.

If they only pull in crowds of around a few thousand then what level are they realistically going to get to? If it's not to at least championship level then what benefit would it be?

It is an interesting idea.

 

Didn't know the SRU were involved there; might be as you say that it would have to be founded independently as a sort of proof-in-principle that it could work, then maybe the SFA would take an interest.

Crowds of a few thousand would be great; a ceiling of League One level, maybe?

Don't know what standard that is, and whether it would be a useful part of youngsters' 'coming of age' to be away from home, playing at a decent level against senior pros. Could just be another of many pathways to player development.

Was thinking that supporters with loyalty to any club up here who were visiting London of a weekend could still be interested in seeing them, particularly if at least some of the team were good young Scots.

34 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There was a football equivalent before WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Caledonians_F.C.

Didn't reemerge after the war in a St Bernards and Kings Park sort of way.

Good knowledge. Decent name, too.

Edited September 2, 2020 by RabidAI
Paragraph added.

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, RabidAI said:

I don't know if they'd need a different name from London Scottish, since that's taken (London Scots might do it), or if they could be affiliated with the original rugby club?

 

Interesting question. Both the rugby club and the LS golf club were originally associated with the London Scottish Regiment (in which my dad served in WW2).

The regiment survives today as A (London Scottish) Company of the London Regiment. If this whacky idea ever gets off the ground I'm sure they'd go along with it.

[RabidAI]

4 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Interesting question. Both the rugby club and the LS golf club were originally associated with the London Scottish Regiment (in which my dad served in WW2).

The regiment survives today as A (London Scottish) Company of the London Regiment. If this whacky idea ever gets off the ground I'm sure they'd go along with it.

Again, good knowledge.

I had seen the rugby club's, er, 'crest' on car window-stickers during my lockdown ambles, which confused me (easily done) because 'London Scottish F. C.' is surely a football club, not a rugby union club.

Anyhow, that's where the wacky idea took hold - but I haven't the resources to do anything about it!

[tongue_tied_danny]

I've heard that Millwall are often considered to have a Scottish connection, although some think that that's a myth.

https://borussiabeefburg.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/millwalls-scottish-myth/

[RabidAI]

On 02/09/2020 at 15:07, tongue_tied_danny said:

I've heard that Millwall are often considered to have a Scottish connection, although some think that that's a myth.

https://borussiabeefburg.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/millwalls-scottish-myth/

Seemingly the 'Pars' nickname for Dunfermline Athletic came from a group of Plymouth Argyle's Rosyth Supporters, who were up working at Rosyth's dockyard. No idea if that cross-border connection is true, but sounds plausible.

 

At least, with London Caledonians amateur football and the London Scottish golf and rugby union clubs, there's some precedent for the idea.

Edited September 3, 2020 by RabidAI
Correcting typo.

[Cyclizine]

Fairly sure there's an FC Romania knocking about in the English lower leagues. There's also precedent in other countries, particularly in Germany, where many football clubs are or were branches of local sports' associations. A number of them are nationality based, particularly Turkish, given the large diaspora. I think there was a Croatian ethnic club that reached the Regionalligen* in the past as well.

I think it would be difficult for any such club to reach the top professional leagues, particularly if they have a "cantera" policy of only signing certain nationalities.

*Edit: seems SD Croatia reached the Regionaliga Nordost in 1998, which at the time was in the German third tier. They've slipped down to the sixth tier Berlin-Liga now though, along with Türkiyemspor.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Cyclizine

[Stag Nation]

1 hour ago, RabidAI said:

Seemingly the 'Pars' nickname for Dunfermline Athletic came from a group of Plymouth Argyle's Rosyth Supporters, who were up working at Rosyth's dockyard. No idea if that cross-border connection is true, but sounds plausible.

The more usual explanation is that they were nicknamed tthe "paralytics" during one of their less stellar periods. Seems much more plausible.

[bluearmyfaction]

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Fairly sure there's an FC Romania knocking about in the English lower leagues. There's also precedent in other countries, particularly in Germany, where many football clubs are or were branches of local sports' associations. A number of them are nationality based, particularly Turkish, given the large diaspora. I think there was a Croatian ethnic club that reached the Regionalligen* in the past as well.

Assyriska FF, founded by Assyrians in Sweden, reached the top flight there in 2005, and even got to the Cup final in 2003.

[Ian38018]

9 hours ago, RabidAI said:

Morning.

Could anyone see a football version of rugby's London Scottish F. C. being a success?

I was wondering if it would act as a sort of rallying point to ex-pat Scots, and so may have full-time potential with decent-enough crowds.

If it was in the English leagues, maybe it could help develop young Scots as loanees learning their trade away from home.

If it was in the Scottish leagues (because England-based Berwick and Tweedmouth are), then an additional full-time club could be welcome. Two away trips to London per club per league season might not be that bad a thing, either.

I don't know if they'd need a different name from London Scottish, since that's taken (London Scots might do it), or if they could be affiliated with the original rugby club?

Thanks.

Hard to see where their supporter base would come from, as I should imagine most football-loving Scots in the smoke already have an allegiance.  Maybe if you set up two clubs:  London Celtic and London Rangers. 

[afca32]

9 hours ago, ahemps said:

I think the SRU help finance the rugby team. I don't know if the SFA would see this as something they would help with so it may need to be something done independently. There are way more English play for the team than Scots though.

If they only pull in crowds of around a few thousand then what level are they realistically going to get to? If it's not to at least championship level then what benefit would it be?

It is an interesting idea.

 

Pretty sure the SRU no longer provide anything for London Scottish though they probably have in the past. 4/5 years ago they were sending a heap of young players and coaches there on loan but the relationship soured and I think there's only been one player go since.

 

4 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Fairly sure there's an FC Romania knocking about in the English lower leagues. There's also precedent in other countries, particularly in Germany, where many football clubs are or were branches of local sports' associations. A number of them are nationality based, particularly Turkish, given the large diaspora. I think there was a Croatian ethnic club that reached the Regionalligen* in the past as well.

I think it would be difficult for any such club to reach the top professional leagues, particularly if they have a "cantera" policy of only signing certain nationalities.

*Edit: seems SD Croatia reached the Regionaliga Nordost in 1998, which at the time was in the German third tier. They've slipped down to the sixth tier Berlin-Liga now though, along with Türkiyemspor.

In the Australian lower leagues this is particularly common. The South Australian Premier League for example contains ethnic teams of Greece, Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Poland and two from Italy (formerly known as Juventus and Napoli SC). Like London Scottish the ethnic links seem to have waned over time although a quick look at the Adelaide Olympic squad shows the majority are of Greek descent.

[SlipperyP]

10 hours ago, afca32 said:

In the Australian lower leagues this is particularly common. The South Australian Premier League for example contains ethnic teams of Greece, Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Poland and two from Italy (formerly known as Juventus and Napoli SC). Like London Scottish the ethnic links seem to have waned over time although a quick look at the Adelaide Olympic squad shows the majority are of Greek descent.

In the Brisbane premier, Brisbane City, are were Italian and Grange Thistle were Scottish.

I had a trial with BC and played for Grange Thistle.

[Eednud]

In the Australian lower leagues this is particularly common. The South Australian Premier League for example contains ethnic teams of Greece, Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Poland and two from Italy (formerly known as Juventus and Napoli SC). Like London Scottish the ethnic links seem to have waned over time although a quick look at the Adelaide Olympic squad shows the majority are of Greek descent.

The ethnic link remains mostly through their committees and fan base. Football Federation Australia decided last year to allow clubs to use their traditional names and ethnic symbols from this season. So far no name changes for NPL or State League SA clubs. Not sure about other parts of Australia though.

[honestly united]

SRU no longer has anything to do with London Scottish after the clun management decided not to sign a full squad as thought the SRU would prop them up with loan signings.

I think a football club would be able to thrive to a certain extent in London. Probably up to Conference south sort of level, but once there you either need a support in the thousands, or someone willing to through money at it - as a focal / social point for Scots in London though would probably be a good idea

[HoBNob]

Chances are if you're interested in football, and you've been down London for a few years you'll already have a connection to a club, I'm a big fan of Brentford and I wouldn't ditch that just to follow a club with a Scottish name. 

[Jacksgranda]

On 02/09/2020 at 10:54, LongTimeLurker said:

There was a football equivalent before WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Caledonians_F.C.

Didn't reemerge after the war in a St Bernards and Kings Park sort of way.

If London Caledonians had carried on, who knows where they might be today. On the other hand, how many former amateur teams have reached as far as the Championship, never mind the Premier division? They may well have been struggling prior to the commencement of the Second World War, their history post 1925 is a bit sketchy going by that Wikipedia link. Was their ground even around in 1945?

3 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Chances are if you're interested in football, and you've been down London for a few years you'll already have a connection to a club, I'm a big fan of Brentford and I wouldn't ditch that just to follow a club with a Scottish name. 

I doubt forming a London Scottish team would take off now, as you say most Scots living in and around London will have an attachment of sorts to an existing team. "Ethnic" teams will only take off if there are large numbers of new immigrants who want to maintain links with their homeland, imo. Maybe displaced Syrians for example.

[Sergeant Wilson]

There isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that an idea like this would get anywhere.

[SlipperyP]

10 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

There isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that an idea like this would get anywhere.

Not even in an amateur capacity?   Which the lower levels of the English pyramid are.

You would probably be at the first game, given a chance.

ETA - If we could get poach @The_Kincardine away from Wycombe Wanderers, I could imagine both you enjoying a pint at the game,  in yer Glenngarry caps

Edited September 4, 2020 by SlipperyP