Combined senior/junior ranking (282 clubs)

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Yes - the ranking is already live - it's up to date with the Premiership score so far this year.

As for the amateur rabbit hole, Drumchapel United also - and there's also Loch Ness jumping from amateur to senior.  Also in the North Caley, Scourie is essentially Kinlochbervie Amateurs.  Edinburgh South and St. Cadoc's would take a major feat of engineering to get on to the rankings, as that would involve scouring youth team results and trying to find some "crossover" matches.  By the way, Saint Cadoc's seem to be taking the "Youth Club" suffix with them, even though they are going senior.

I was going to mention some of the others. Not sure how much Drumchapel United count, since it was Drumchapel United PYM and they're still keeping the amateur side going. Does that mean it's kind of a new team entirely?

And then do you add Linlithgow Rose Community's amateur results? Bo'ness United Juniors under the Linlithgow Thistle amateur name?

[mcruic]

Aye - I'm forgetting the amateurs - that's the new rule.  You have to be in a junior or senior league or you're no getting on the ranking.  Haha!

As for Glasgow Uni - maybe they will surprise us all - Certainly 3rd place (on PPG) in the Caledonian League is not to be sniffed at, as it's the 2nd best amateur league in the country - only 1 league defeat in their 10 games.  Looking at some of the teams in their league, I think they might be able to beat the likes of Saltcoats and Lugar - maybe even Maybole and Muirkirk.

Biggest mismatch is going to be Bonnyton Thistle in the WoS Premier.  Unless they strengthen, they're in for a hiding in every match.

As for juniors - the top 3 or 4 remaining Lothian Juniors would all have been challengers for promotion to the EoS Premier had they "jumped ship" this year.  The Top 3 Tayside clubs would potentially be top half clubs in either the Highland League or the Lowland League.  Certainly Lochee United, Carnoustie Panmure, Broughty Athletic and Banks o' Dee are the best 4 clubs outwith the senior setup currently.

 

 

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, mcruic said:

Aye - I'm forgetting the amateurs - that's the new rule.  You have to be in a junior or senior league or you're no getting on the ranking.  Haha!

As for Glasgow Uni - maybe they will surprise us all - Certainly 3rd place (on PPG) in the Caledonian League is not to be sniffed at, as it's the 2nd best amateur league in the country - only 1 league defeat in their 10 games.  Looking at some of the teams in their league, I think they might be able to beat the likes of Saltcoats and Lugar - maybe even Maybole and Muirkirk.

Biggest mismatch is going to be Bonnyton Thistle in the WoS Premier.  Unless they strengthen, they're in for a hiding in every match.

As for juniors - the top 3 or 4 remaining Lothian Juniors would all have been challengers for promotion to the EoS Premier had they "jumped ship" this year.  The Top 3 Tayside clubs would potentially be top half clubs in either the Highland League or the Lowland League.  Certainly Lochee United, Carnoustie Panmure, Broughty Athletic and Banks o' Dee are the best 4 clubs outwith the senior setup currently.

No clue where Glasgow University will ultimately place. With them being 9/16 there's not much room to fall.

They usually fair reasonably against the lower level teams in the cups, so I don't see them finishing bottom that's for sure. I don't see why they won't settle into a similar sort of performance as the unis in the EoSFL.

Edited August 31, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[monthehoose]

4 hours ago, gogsy said:

Mccruic's tweaks have got the Hoose one place above Blackburn now.

More like it, but only one place?

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, mcruic said:

I've not put in Juniors as it's not always certain if it's "really" part of the name - Blairgowrie call themselves BJFC for example - but is the Juniors part of the name?  Neilston seem to have dropped the Juniors recently and are now just Neilston.  I imagine if any of these teams ever got promoted to the SPFL, they'd drop the "Juniors" moniker.

I think if it's part of the club's official name then it should be included - some have it as others would have Rose, Thistle, United as the second part of their name. There's also Dyce and Port Glasgow that I missed from that list. Some ex-Juniors have dropped it - Dunipace, Wishaw - or clarified they don't use it in their name.

But if it's the case of having JFC at the end of a club's name (where J=Junior singular) then it shouldn't be included, just like FC is dropped from all the names.

Camelon Juniors is their name registered with the SFA

50 minutes ago, mcruic said:

As for juniors - the top 3 or 4 remaining Lothian Juniors would all have been challengers for promotion to the EoS Premier had they "jumped ship" this year. 

Fauldhouse were about to be promoted to the East Superleague at the end of 2017/18, if they had jumped ship no doubt would still be in EOS Premier.

It would also be interesting to see the following non-league combinations in one table, to compare how things would look with league mergers:

All clubs split North / South - at the Tay Bridge (could swap Luncarty and Tayport if you want)
East - EOS + East Junior South
West - SOS + WOS
North - North Juniors + East Junior North

[mcruic]

Yeah - I added last season's East Region South Superleague, which had not been picked up by the rankings calculator (I had left the league field blank in the spreadsheet, so it just ignored the whole season).

For argument's sake, the last matches between Blackburn and Fauldhouse were within living memory for most of us on here:
24/04/2018 Blackburn United 1-0 Fauldhouse United
23/09/2017 Fauldhouse United 0-4 Blackburn United

Don't know what all the fuss is about - Fauldhouse clearly worse

[mcruic]

You've convinced me - I'll add the "Juniors" to these teams who retain it.  I think Gartcairn also (officially Gartcairn Football Academy Juniors).

Port Glasgow is odd as it is "Port Glasgow Junior Football Club" (not Juniors) - so in that case seems more descriptive of what kind of football club they are (as you mentioned above).

Lesmahagow is another "Junior" (singular).

SJFA isn't much help - Pumpherston Juniors can also be added (though SJFA has just Pumpherston).  AlSo "Dundee Downfield" and "Dundee East Craigie" - the clubs don't use "Dundee" in their name (although East Craigie have "Dundee East Craigie" as their FB page - probably just as there are lots of "Craigies" in Scotland - but their club badge doesn't include the word Dundee.

Shettleston Juniors and Colony Park Juniors are 2 more - but "New Elgin Juniors" call themselves New Elgin FC everywhere except their club badge (Juniors).

Bo'ness United and Bo'ness United Junior (singular) is also problematic.  I've gone for "Juniors" just to distinguish between them.

Syngenta is Syngenta Junior's (sic) on Twitter

Newburgh says on its website "http://newburghfc.co.uk/our-history/" - At the start of the next season when registering with the SFA/SJFA the club changed the name and have always been formally recognised as Newburgh FC.", yet their website names them "Newburgh Juniors FC" (As does their club badge). #

 

 

Meanwhile, Forfar Albion has merged with local amateur team Lowson United and is now known as Forfar United.

Edited August 31, 2020 by mcruic

[mcruic]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

It would also be interesting to see the following non-league combinations in one table, to compare how things would look with league mergers:

All clubs split North / South - at the Tay Bridge (could swap Luncarty and Tayport if you want)
East - EOS + East Junior South
West - SOS + WOS
North - North Juniors + East Junior North

Done.  All non-league clubs included (Tier 5 down).

[Ginaro]

The sources for these club names are consistently inconsistent!

Some other things that are worth fixing:

• The league name should be added above each table (just like how the individual club result page tells you what club it is), and the button of the current page should look different - so that you know what league you're actually looking at
• The page title tag does not change for each individual page - it would be a good idea to have something like "page name | SCOTSCORES"
• You'd be better using the CSS file to add the font face and size instead of adding a style tag to each td; and you could use the th tag for the top row of each table

Edited September 1, 2020 by Ginaro

[Kicker Conspiracy]

This is absolutely brilliant, I do hope you can manage to keep it all updated.

[Hillonearth]

19 hours ago, mcruic said:

You've convinced me - I'll add the "Juniors" to these teams who retain it.  I think Gartcairn also (officially Gartcairn Football Academy Juniors).

Port Glasgow is odd as it is "Port Glasgow Junior Football Club" (not Juniors) - so in that case seems more descriptive of what kind of football club they are (as you mentioned above).

Lesmahagow is another "Junior" (singular).

SJFA isn't much help - Pumpherston Juniors can also be added (though SJFA has just Pumpherston).  AlSo "Dundee Downfield" and "Dundee East Craigie" - the clubs don't use "Dundee" in their name (although East Craigie have "Dundee East Craigie" as their FB page - probably just as there are lots of "Craigies" in Scotland - but their club badge doesn't include the word Dundee.

Shettleston Juniors and Colony Park Juniors are 2 more - but "New Elgin Juniors" call themselves New Elgin FC everywhere except their club badge (Juniors).

Bo'ness United and Bo'ness United Junior (singular) is also problematic.  I've gone for "Juniors" just to distinguish between them.

Syngenta is Syngenta Junior's (sic) on Twitter

Newburgh says on its website "http://newburghfc.co.uk/our-history/" - At the start of the next season when registering with the SFA/SJFA the club changed the name and have always been formally recognised as Newburgh FC.", yet their website names them "Newburgh Juniors FC" (As does their club badge). #

 

 

Meanwhile, Forfar Albion has merged with local amateur team Lowson United and is now known as Forfar United.

The Dundee and Aberdeen sides have quite a few like that - a lot of people persist in referring to Aberdeen East End, and indeed Aberdeen Lads' Club when they were on the go. I think the only two Dundee sides that actually have the city in their name are North End and Violet.

As for the "Juniors" names, my team was commonly referred to as "Maryhill Juniors" for years despite the word never actually figuring in our name at any point...it was just a convenient bit of shorthand I guess. I even have a copy of this match programme from the 1980s just when we first started doing them which proves the club itself was getting its own name wrong back in the day!

[mcruic]

10 hours ago, Ginaro said:

The sources for these club names are consistently inconsistent!

Some other things that are worth fixing:

• The league name should be added above each table (just like how the individual club result page tells you what club it is), and the button of the current page should look different - so that you know what league you're actually looking at
• The page title tag does not change for each individual page - it would be a good idea to have something like "page name | SCOTSCORES"
• You'd be better using the CSS file to add the font face and size instead of adding a style tag to each td; and you could use the th tag for the top row of each table

Thanks for the tips - will get on to that.

The HTML for each page (as well as the ranking caluclation) is generated using a Python program I wrote - so I can just move the bits from that into the CSS file.  Contrary to what that sounds like, I don't move with ease in these fields!

I've just spent most of the day scouring the internet for all the results for the 2015-16 season - just completed - 4979 extra matches will be added to the database to make the data a bit more reliable.  Had particular difficulty with all the South of Scotland cup competitions and the Inter-Regional North/Tayside Cup - but got there in the end.

Now - to the CSS...

Edited September 2, 2020 by mcruic

[mcruic]

U-20 and reserve matches now added to give the data more depth.  You can also check out how U-20 and reserve teams compare, as they now have their own ranking as well.

I've set up a cup simulator based on the data from the rankings, and I'll run it over the next couple of days.

Most are real cups - I've taken a bit of artistic licence with the formats/participants of some, resurrected a few, and made up a few.  Let's see how it goes!

Meanwhile, I've made the draws for the 57 cups, and they can be seen here:
 
http://scotscores.theroonba.com/sim/index.html

I'll add any more cups if anyone can think of any they'd like to see.

Edited September 7, 2020 by mcruic

[mcruic]

All 2014-15 results have now been added to the database.  The only results I am missing are from the North of Scotland U20 league (2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons).  Defunct clubs are also listed at the bottom for reference (I've dug up their "expunged" results as well, as they've been wiped from most websites).

I've also created a ranking of all the 144 teams in the "Lowland" Region (Lowland League, EoS, WoS, and SoS Leagues) who will take part in the South Region Challenge Cup this season.

http://scotscores.theroonba.com/clubrank/clubrankesw.html

 

[mcruic]

Comparison of current strengths of all 21 senior leagues in Scotland based on database of 33,000+ matches:



 

[mcruic]

I've changed the rankings slightly again after a few tests:

STAYING THE SAME:
1: Weighting for league (2) and cup (1). - Am testing to see whether this is needed.  Cup ties are taken seriously by many teams.
2: Weighting for tier (1 down to 9).

Essentially this means the points available for matches further down is less.

NEW:
3: Possibility of losing points when winning, or gaining points while losing.

I felt point 3 was necessary - it prevents teams from rising up the rankings despite playing poorly (for example, a series of 1-0 wins by a table topping side against teams at the bottom of the league doesn't show that the gap between them is widening - if anything it shows the gap is reducing - so this should be reflected in the rankings.  If Celtic only win 1-0 against Fort William, for example, they should really lose points and Fort William should be rewarded.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by mcruic

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, gogsy said:

What happens with the teams that aren't taking part this season, ranking points frozen?

I guess if they don't play then they stay on the same points - though maybe there be something added to indicate they are not currently playing? (same goes for HL, Juniors etc) Or moved to the inactive section?

Edited October 30, 2020 by Ginaro

[mcruic]

This is back up and running for the new season - with all new clubs added, clubs in abeyance moved to inactive section, new pyramid leagues added. All U20 leagues now added as well 

 

http://scotscores.theroonba.com/clubrank/clubrank.html

There's also a women's ranking.

 

Teams that won promotion last season generally start off in mid-table this season, with a few exceptions like Kelty starting off as favourites for League 2.  I don't think they'll be far off winning League 2.  League strengths are shown in the individual league rankings, along with the variability in the strengths of the teams within that league.  WoS coming out as best league below SPFL, followed by EoS, Lowland, Highland.  North Caledonian by far the weakest Tier 6 league.

Edited July 27, 2021 by mcruic

[zenon]

Website no longer available due to not enough time to process updates. Shame, surely someone else can have a try to do senior/junior rankings.

[Ginaro]

On 07/08/2021 at 19:19, zenon said:

Website no longer available due to not enough time to process updates. Shame, surely someone else can have a try to do senior/junior rankings.

They are back up - hopefully they can either stay up or be passed over for someone else to keep updating them.