Scotland's 15.1 Billion Defecit

[Big Rider]

1 hour ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

How would an independent Scotland bridge the gap without austerity?

Aye, like there's definitely no austerity coming from our Westminster Tory overlords post Covid and Brexit.......

[sophia]

The whole premise of previous years gers figures were that we'd be starting off from a disadvantaged place and best case scenario would be that it would take generations to put it right.

Well guess what, the whole of the UK is now resetting to a position of relative disadvantage from this time last year.

Does this mean the UK is not viable?

It matters very little where our Scottish starting point is. What seems to be the case is that a firm majority now trust us to make the best job of it.

The sooner we get started, the better.

[git-intae-thum]

To view these figures in context, you have to look at the reasons for them and their initial design.

The initial design was politically motivated. Ian Laing, the then Tory Scottish secretary, back in the early 90's wanted something that would make Scotland appear dependent on the rest of the UK. He got it.

I know they have had several tweaks and amendments since but the basic premis of these figures remains the same.  Scotland is allocated a proportionate share of UK spend. Scotland gets allocated no where near its proportionate share of income. Hence the big supposed deficit.

Why scotgov still publish them is anyone's guess. This should have been sorted by the first majority SNP government.

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

I’m sure Scotland would handle deficit the same way every other country in the world does.

By largely ignoring it.

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

How would an independent Scotland bridge the gap without austerity?

By deficit i refer to gap between what we'd be receiving in tax and what we're currently spending. Not the overall debt.

Charge the UK government 15billion a year to store their nuclear weapons.

Job done.

[git-intae-thum]

This is from 2017, but it pretty well explains gers methodology for apportioning Scotland with a large deficit....and explains why it's pure nonsense that would not apply to an independent state.

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/08/25/gers-is-this-why-it-always-says-the-scottish-deficit-is-so-large/comment-page-1/

 

[Detournement]

58 minutes ago, Ross. said:

It's actually an out of context quote from some SLAB mouthpiece from the run up to the last referendum. Can't remember if it was Jackie Baillie or Johan Lamont.

It was Lamont and it was a response to the Nationalist delusion that we will effortlessly bloom into a social democracy without any of the reactionary/neoliberalism tendencies that have been dominant in pretty much every other European country since the 90s. 

 

[Detournement]

22 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

I’m sure Scotland would handle deficit the same way every other country in the world does.

By largely ignoring it.

We couldn't do that with Sterlingisation. 

[Terry_Tibbs]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

How does the UK as a whole currently "bridge the gap"?

By borrowing. Without a currency of her own Scotland would not be able to borrow on the same term or issue bonds.

1 hour ago, tamthebam said:

Have a proper tax regime where companies like Amazon pay what they owe and we don't have tax avoidance schemes for the rich? You know, like proper countries. 

Or Scotland could refuse to pay it's share of the Iraq War costs on the grounds that it was illegal..... 

The SNP's plan last time was to lower existing corporation tax rates not increase them. How would you attract/keep companies if you're increasing their taxes and when they can move next door with minimum hassle and save a bundle? 

The second part of your argument wouldn't fly. No one would lend to Scotland if we didn't pay our share of the debt.

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

I fail to understand how a theoretical defecit as part of the Union, in any shape or form signifies how Scotland would perform economically when we're independent. 

You don't think we'd be starting off with a blank slate do you? If there is a referendum anytime soon and a yes vote this is type of deficit Scotland would have to cover.

Please do enlighten me to how Scotland would perform.

39 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I don't know. Would there be a deficit in an independent Scotland? 

From day one according to the Scottish Government's own figures.

I think the fact this reasonable question triggers downvotes is testament to the levels of group think among Scottish Nationalists. It's almost as if they haven't begun to consider the ramifications of a yes vote. No one person has tried to answer the question.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Terry_Tibbs

[Melanius Mullarkey]

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We couldn't do that with Sterlingisation. 

f**k it and just do a Greece.

[Jacksgranda]

Just now, Terry_Tibbs said:

 

I think the fact this reasonable question triggers downvotes is testament to the levels of group think among Scottish Nationalists. It's almost as if they haven't begun to consider the ramifications of a yes vote. No one person has tried to answer the question.

I'm not a Scottish Nationalist. HTH

(I am Scottish, though.)

[Ross.]

1 minute ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

By borrowing. With a currency of her own Scotland would not be able to borrow on the same term or issue bonds.

Why would Scotland not be able to borrow on the same terms or issue bonds, if it had a currency of its own?

[Terry_Tibbs]

21 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Charge the UK government 15billion a year to store their nuclear weapons.

Job done.

They'll move to Barrow and Furness. Unlike the SNP they have a plan B. I'm sure the people there will appreciate the jobs.

[Terry_Tibbs]

1 minute ago, Ross. said:

Why would Scotland not be able to borrow on the same terms or issue bonds, if it had a currency of its own?

Sorry typo. Without a currency.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Terry_Tibbs

[Ross.]

Just now, Terry_Tibbs said:

Sorry typo. Without a currency.

Why wouldn't Scotland have a currency of it's own?

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

 

The SNP's plan last time was to lower existing corporation tax rates not increase them. How would you attract/keep companies if you're increasing their taxes and when they can move next door with minimum hassle and save a bundle? 

The second part of your argument wouldn't fly. No one would lend to Scotland if we didn't pay our share of the debt.

If I thought that Indepedence means Starbucks, Amazon, Google etc would f**k off I'd definitely vote for it! Sadly all that would happen is that Holyrood lobbying would become much more lucrative. 

On paying the debt Richard Murphy made a good point the other day. The UK has only paid down interest for 20+ plus years so iScotland wouldn't have to pay off any capital sum unless rUK also began to pay it off (which will never happen). 

[Terry_Tibbs]

3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I'm not a Scottish Nationalist. HTH

(I am Scottish, though.)

The part wasn't aimed at you granda. You didn't downvote the question as far as i know.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Why wouldn't Scotland have a currency of it's own?

That's the SNP plan. 

[Terry_Tibbs]

3 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Why wouldn't Scotland have a currency of it's own?

There is no plan for one. If Scotland becomes independent in the next 5 years there will be no independent currency in place upon becoming independent.

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

On paying the debt Richard Murphy made a good point the other day. The UK has only paid down interest for 20+ plus years so iScotland wouldn't have to pay off any capital sum unless rUK also began to pay it off (which will never happen). 

Even at that, given a significant portion of the debit is pretty much owed to ourselves, the interest that is paid down is partially paid back to us.

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

That's the SNP plan. 

Would the SNP remain in power forever?