Scotland's 15.1 Billion Defecit

[Terry_Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

39 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

It's refreshing that so many petty nats are now admitting that a vote for independence will leave us all worse off.
You know your masters have done a good job on you when you readily vote against your economic self-interest for a mere illusion of control.
So many posters here are clearly half baked. Sandy in particular has been reaching for the bowl.

And there we have it folks, the greedy, grubbing, chiselling mindset of the odious right-wing intellectual dwarf. Not a scintilla of care or concern for society, never mind any care for the divisions which have been deliberately manufactured within it. f**k you.

Have a day off will you. You're projecting so hard you might fall in.

The divisions have been sown by the petty Scottish Nationalists who from 19/09/2014 have refused to accept the result of free and fair once in a generation referendum.

If your reading comprehension was up to scratch you'd know i oppose your brand of petty nationalism on grounds that it'll hit the most vulnerable hardest. Nor have i ever been described as right-wing by anyone with a molecule of intelligence.

[Terry_Tibbs]

7 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Finally an admission that your championing of and voting for Brexit was a symptom of your being brainwashed into voting against economic self interest for a mere illusion of control. Petty UK nationalism at its worst.

I didn't vote for Brexit sweetie. Are you being deliberately obtuse or did your care worker drop you as a baby?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Is this Malky or Tarmo ?

Trying way too fucking hard whoever it is.

[Anonapersona]

8 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Is this Malky or Tarmo ?

Trying way too fucking hard whoever it is.

Going from the majority to the minority is not going down well at all with unionists.

[Antlion]

10 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said:

I didn't vote for Brexit sweetie. Are you being deliberately obtuse or did your care worker drop you as a baby?

So you’re a more recent convert because the motherland has decided on it and must not be questioned?

 

 

[Bairnardo]

I didn't vote for Brexit sweetie. Are you being deliberately obtuse or did your care worker drop you as a baby?

Sweetie.

[HTG]

3 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Is this Malky or Tarmo ?

Trying way too fucking hard whoever it is.

He's a fucking melt. 

[AUFC90]

c***s pure sat at his PC going "dance puppets muhahahah"

Thrashing his maggot at the same time. Pathetic.

[welshbairn]

16 hours ago, Antlion said:

So you’re a more recent convert because the motherland has decided on it and must not be questioned?

 

 

Interesting looking back at how we were all thinking back then. Couldn't really have gone any worse.

[Utter Roaster]

On 31/08/2020 at 17:18, Terry_Tibbs said:

 

 

[SweeperDee]

It's refreshing that so many petty nats are now admitting that a vote for independence will leave us all worse off.

You know your masters have done a good job on you when you readily vote against your economic self-interest for a mere illusion of control.

So many posters here are clearly half baked. Sandy in particular has been reaching for the bowl.

Illusion of control? Right, no bother.

 

If having the ability to change the course of your nation, safeguarding it for decades to come, means a few tough decisions on the way; myself and loads of folk my age and above/below are more than prepared to work through it. Actually realising your potential, whether it be personal, or “national” takes effort, it’s not easy, and it will take a little while.

 

Considering all of that, I’d still rather do it all than be stuck with a nation that’s on course to being USA lite (even moreso than it has been since I’ve been born).

 

Your “arguments” about being worse off economically are beginning to just not be effective, and yoons will be in for a big shock when they realise that Scots will vote for independence regardless of anything; whether it’s in the next 2 years or whenever. It’s absolutely inevitable.

[G51]

On 31/08/2020 at 17:18, Terry_Tibbs said:

It's refreshing that so many petty nats are now admitting that a vote for independence will leave us all worse off.

You know your masters have done a good job on you when you readily vote against your economic self-interest for a mere illusion of control.

So many posters here are clearly half baked. Sandy in particular has been reaching for the bowl.

I’ve a question for you. What do you think happens when a nation can no longer pay its national debt?

[coprolite]

12 hours ago, G51 said:

I’ve a question for you. What do you think happens when a nation can no longer pay its national debt?

Usually a more powerful nation takes the opportunity to impose some level of control on the struggling one. See Germany's hostile takeover of Greece or the US forcing the tiger economies to open capital markets via their imf proxy. 

[G51]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

Usually a more powerful nation takes the opportunity to impose some level of control on the struggling one. See Germany's hostile takeover of Greece or the US forcing the tiger economies to open capital markets via their imf proxy. 

I'd say it's the biggest creditor that tries to impose some level of control, which is a slight but important distinction. Germany was the largest foreign creditor for Greece, for example, but more widely the overwhelming amount of foreign debt was owed to the Eurozone, which made collective decisions.

Ultimately, there are debts that get paid and debts that do not get paid. This is the nature of all debt. Of course, the debts owed to Germany, France and the IMF are still falling due. But initially, the crisis was resolved when *private* banks took a 50% haircut on the debt they were owed, resulting in a €100bn write-off. And all of a sudden, everything was fine again (for a while, until the Greeks decided that austerity was a pile of shite and the West decided to punish them for that).

In Scotland we would owe a significant proportion of our debt to... ourselves. So if it ever becomes a problem, we just do what the Greeks did and forgive it. Or we just print some more money and move on. It's hard to see how a Western country could ever default on debt repayments given the lessons we've learned in recent years.

Deficits, balanced budgets, national debt... any policy which uses these things as a reason for it's existence is founded on a lie. It's a convenient excuse to allow ideologists to impose unpopular policies. And because debt is inherently moral, people just accept it. The truth is that civilisations figured out thousands of years ago in times of crisis, debt forgiveness is the only possible route back to prosperity. This has been rejected in the last 200 years or so, because of the implication it would have for those who hold all of the wealth and power in our societies.

[coprolite]

I'm not saying that other countries should have exploited defaulting countries but that's what has happened. 

Your suggestion that Scotland could print money only works outside the proposed Sterling union. 

I'm not hugely supportive of an independent Scotland but if it was to happen it would absolutely need its own currency with no pegs. Scotland in a Sterling zone would not be independent in anything but name. 

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

On 31/08/2020 at 19:07, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Is this Malky or Tarmo ?

Trying way too fucking hard whoever it is.

Can the mods. not just hit the big red ejector button and put this Tibbs fanny out of his misery ?

[G51]

54 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I'm not saying that other countries should have exploited defaulting countries but that's what has happened. 

Your suggestion that Scotland could print money only works outside the proposed Sterling union. 

I'm not hugely supportive of an independent Scotland but if it was to happen it would absolutely need its own currency with no pegs. Scotland in a Sterling zone would not be independent in anything but name. 

 

Agreed. So let's do that.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

 

I'm not hugely supportive of an independent Scotland but if it was to happen it would absolutely need its own currency with no pegs. Scotland in a Sterling zone would not be independent in anything but name. 

 

Germany are in the Euro zone. Are they not independent ?

I'm pretty sure that Italians, Spanish and even Greeks would have something to say about the accusation that they're not really independent. 

[coprolite]

8 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Germany are in the Euro zone. Are they not independent ?

I'm pretty sure that Italians, Spanish and even Greeks would have something to say about the accusation that they're not really independent. 

They might have something to say but it's a fact that they can't make decisions about and deploy many levers of policy independently of the other members of the currency union. 

"Independence" is a relative term that defines a relationship between two or more states in respect of an area of government responsibility. 

For example, It is possible to have independent criminal law and common monetary policy, like the eurozone or to a lesser extent the uk. 

Having a common monetary policy necessarily restricts the effectiveness of fiscal policy.  Scotland in a currency union with England couldn't devalue or inflate debt away without the consent and connivance of England. They would be dependent on them. 

Scotland would also be dependent on other polities in respect of other areas of policy, for example nato members for defence and eu members for border control. 

The notion of absolute independence is for dribbling simpletons like Farage or Gove. 

My understanding is the Scottish Government policy is to seek fiscal independence from the Uk. To do that they need monetary independence too. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

10 minutes ago, coprolite said:

They might have something to say but it's a fact that they can't make decisions about and deploy many levers of policy independently of the other members of the currency union. 

"Independence" is a relative term that defines a relationship between two or more states in respect of an area of government responsibility. 

For example, It is possible to have independent criminal law and common monetary policy, like the eurozone or to a lesser extent the uk. 

Having a common monetary policy necessarily restricts the effectiveness of fiscal policy.  Scotland in a currency union with England couldn't devalue or inflate debt away without the consent and connivance of England. They would be dependent on them. 

Scotland would also be dependent on other polities in respect of other areas of policy, for example nato members for defence and eu members for border control. 

The notion of absolute independence is for dribbling simpletons like Farage or Gove. 

My understanding is the Scottish Government policy is to seek fiscal independence from the Uk. To do that they need monetary independence too. 

The rest of your post I pretty much agree with.

To the highlighted part I would say that we would act financially in conjunction with the Bank of England....not England. The BoE is independent from Westminster, as I'm sure you know.