craigkillie Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Not every bad performance is a "shitebag display", we just weren't very good which is what sometimes happens when you are a team performing several levels above the sum of your parts for the majority of a campaign. A very similar Georgia team had put in a credible performance away to Italy four days earlier and also took points off Ukraine a month earlier. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Not every bad performance is a "shitebag display", we just weren't very good which is what sometimes happens when you are a team performing several levels above the sum of your parts for the majority of a campaign. A very similar Georgia team had put in a credible performance away to Italy four days earlier and also took points off Ukraine a month earlier. No, but that display absolutely was. A total shitebagging. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IggyStooge Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Binos said: I think our midfield is our only area we can talk up Mcginns fast becoming a talisman But aye they two or three solid midfielders in that Greek team, forget their names Kastouranis? Zagorakis was player of the tournament, ably assisted by Karagounis, Katsouranis and Basinas. Dellas and Nikopolidis kept them out at the back and Charisteas usually banged in the singular goal. Also a special mention to Takis Fyssas, erstwhile of Hearts, who was also selected in the team of the tournament. Otto Rehhagel was the master tactician who as well as subsequently taking Greece to two World Cup qualifications had also previously guided Werder Bremen to two Bundesligas and a European trophy. I think he was actually linked with the Scotland job at one point; somewhat tenuously, I would imagine, as he knocked back the chance to manage his native Germany to stay with the Greeks. Edited October 10, 2020 by IggyStooge 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: What are you on about you absolute madman? "Usually we are great"! I don't know that I've ever read quite such utter horseshit on here. We are very, very seldom ever great. these days 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 The failure came about due to a hideously shitebag display against a terrible Georgia who were without several regular players and had to play 3 teenagers. Nothing glorious about that.Ref was speaking to both keepers before every penalty so they had no excuse for coming off their line! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: There was absolutely nothing 'glorious' about that failure. I don't think it was luck. He was checking his position each time. Seemed to me he had practiced them. The failure came about due to a hideously shitebag display against a terrible Georgia who were without several regular players and had to play 3 teenagers. Nothing glorious about that. Beating France twice but still not qualifying? That seems like glorious failure in that we’d done the hard part only to come unstuck against Georgia which left us needing to beat Italy in the last game, then drawing 1-1 with Italy until late on. We’re Scotland and that’s typically what we do, whether in qualification campaigns or when we actually reach tournaments. We leave ourselves too much to do late on in campaigns so we fall just short. We then, rightly or wrongly, class this as glorious failure. The mindset of Scottish coaches (and to be fair, players and fans too) doesn’t help, where we think draws in qualifying campaigns are good results, when they are not, and will likely see us fail to qualify as we’ll have too much to do late in the qualifying campaign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, ewan14 said: these days It wasn't exactly a typical feature in bygone years either. Attaching glory to our failures is self serving and has only rarely been fitting. It is part of a "Wha's like us?" narrative that is mythical, based on a daft notion of exceptionalism, and ultimately does us no favours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 By 'honking', I was referring to how awful Greece were to watch. They obviously had decent players, albeit nowhere near good enough to win the tournament without shitfesting. Absolutely wanted them to win by the time they got going, however. The games were eyerape, but it was quality to see the press and commentary teams whining about the "anti-football" team getting the best of their favourites. Reminded me of Wimbledon during the Eighties, who were utterly detested for managing to hack (literally) the tactics being used by the big boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenockraver Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: What are you on about you absolute madman? "Usually we are great"! I don't know that I've ever read quite such utter horseshit on here. We are very, very seldom ever great. I can't even remember typing that tbh . time stamp says pished lol. I guess my mind was on Italy 2007 which thinking about it now is tbf probably the only time we were great and got beat in recent memory. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, IggyStooge said: Zagorakis was player of the tournament, ably assisted by Karagounis, Katsouranis and Basinas. Dellas and Nikopolidis kept them out at the back and Charisteas usually banged in the singular goal. Also a special mention to Takis Fyssas, erstwhile of Hearts, who was also selected in the team of the tournament. Otto Rehhagel was the master tactician who as well as subsequently taking Greece to two World Cup qualifications had also previously guided Werder Bremen to two Bundesligas and a European trophy. I think he was actually linked with the Scotland job at one point; somewhat tenuously, I would imagine, as he knocked back the chance to manage his native Germany to stay with the Greeks. Was the beginning, of boring as f**k to watch, 5 at the back 1 up front football though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 49 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: Beating France twice but still not qualifying? That seems like glorious failure in that we’d done the hard part only to come unstuck against Georgia which left us needing to beat Italy in the last game, then drawing 1-1 with Italy until late on. We’re Scotland and that’s typically what we do, whether in qualification campaigns or when we actually reach tournaments. We leave ourselves too much to do late on in campaigns so we fall just short. We then, rightly or wrongly, class this as glorious failure. The mindset of Scottish coaches (and to be fair, players and fans too) doesn’t help, where we think draws in qualifying campaigns are good results, when they are not, and will likely see us fail to qualify as we’ll have too much to do late in the qualifying campaign. Draws sometimes are good results. If we'd drawn in Slovakia in the last World Cup campaign then we'd have finished ahead of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Scary Bear said: Decade, singular. The qualification campaign for 2008 Euros was glorious failure IMO. In a group with both WC finalists and a quarter-finalist. Beating France home and away and Ukraine at home. Then that last game against Italy. That was a great campaign ending in our usual (glorious) failure but it was the last memorable campaign for the right reasons where we went toe to toe with the big teams and you felt we had a good chance. Any qualification from us would be glorious And our failure to do so from a winning position in the dying embers of a final game would be glorious failure, would it not From memory last both strach campaigns we did that For 2010 we went down to last game v Dutch for a play off too, and were in game till they scored last 10 mins 08, did same 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 34 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Draws sometimes are good results. If we'd drawn in Slovakia in the last World Cup campaign then we'd have finished ahead of them. Would we have managed a play-off place? I recall Slovakia were the worst placed team and didn’t get a place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: Would we have managed a play-off place? I recall Slovakia were the worst placed team and didn’t get a place. We would if we'd held on to our lead in Slovenia in the final group game Before we stopped playing and chucked it away 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 38 minutes ago, Binos said: Any qualification from us would be glorious And our failure to do so from a winning position in the dying embers of a final game would be glorious failure, would it not From memory last both strach campaigns we did that For 2010 we went down to last game v Dutch for a play off too, and were in game till they scored last 10 mins 08, did same I suppose we have been close a few times. Strachan’s last campaign we started the campaign poorly, then came on to a game, took it to the last game again where we just fell short. Close but no play-off spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Binos said: We would if we'd held on to our lead in Slovenia in the final group game Before we stopped playing and chucked it away But we didn’t, which sort of is my point about draws being no good. I suppose draws are better than 3-0 pumpings. Edited October 10, 2020 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: I suppose we have been close a few times. Strachan’s last campaign we started the campaign poorly, then came on to a game, took it to the last game again where we just fell short. Close but no play-off spot. Exactly Close but no play off is the modern day glorious failure An earlier poster thought it only counted if you were playing both the world cup finalists Edited October 10, 2020 by Binos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Binos said: Exactly Close but no play off is the modern day glorious failure An earlier poster thought it only counted if you were playing both the world cup finalists In that last WC campaign we drew at home with Lithuania, got humped away in Slovakia and England, then turned the campaign round with a few wins, then drew with Slovenia away and missed out. It didn’t seem that glorious too me, but it was close and the team was decent enough to watch towards the end. Being a Scotland fan is debating shades of failure. Maybe we could come up with a scale from Glorious to Abject? Edited October 10, 2020 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: Would we have managed a play-off place? I recall Slovakia were the worst placed team and didn’t get a place. Yes, we would. We finished behind Slovakia on goal difference, but if we had an extra point (eg from another draw in a game we lost) then we'd have been one of the best runners-up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 If we'd have won in the final game instead of drawing we would've been on the best 8 runners-up, displacing Ireland, and assuming the draw was the same we would've played Denmark in the play-off (who beat Ireland 0-0/5-1). So would probably have been another glorious failure. Qualifying for Euro 2016 was our best shot but the defeat in Georgia meant we couldn't even finish in the top 3 of the group to get to the play-offs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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