Playoff Semi Final , 18th October 2020

[gastropod]

1 hour ago, microdave said:

That was turgid but the penalties were superb(even if it didn't feel lke it at the time) and I would bite your hand off for the same against Serbia. I actually think we might have a better chance against the Serbs rather than Norway. 

We can only hope ..Just watched highlights of their game v Norway and they look a very good side ..This is going to be hard to watch unless we pull a performance out the hat...Anyway  , couple of games to get through first before we worry about that one . Hopefully tonight gives the squad a lift..

[Gordopolis]

I know, it’s not been easy to watch Scotland over the last 20 years. Thing is we are grinding out results without really playing well or near the capacity you’d think we are capable of with the calibre of players we have in the squad. You’d like to think things would eventually “click”

Closest we've come since France 98 - in my view - is the 2008 qualifiers, where we seemed to be playing fearlessly, defending convincingly and spunking goals in left right and centre. The time since seems to have been ever more desperate attempts to recapture that. Hard to argue that this side - on that performance - is any better than the toot Levein was putting out.

[Guest Rscot]

4 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

9 minutes ago, Rscot said:

I know, it’s not been easy to watch Scotland over the last 20 years. Thing is we are grinding out results without really playing well or near the capacity you’d think we are capable of with the calibre of players we have in the squad. You’d like to think things would eventually “click”

Closest we've come since France 98 - in my view - is the 2008 qualifiers, where we seemed to be playing fearlessly, defending convincingly and spunking goals in left right and centre. The time since seems to have been ever more desperate attempts to recapture that. Hard to argue that this side - on that performance - is any better than the toot Levein was putting out.

I cant really comment too much on tonight’s match as I only saw the highlights, but one thing that struck me was Mcginn taking on shots which are never hitting the back of the net when a short pass was playing someone through or allowing them a shot from a better position. Some better decision making in the final 1/3 could’ve seen us score 1 or 2. Be interesting so see how we play in the next two matches, hopefully we can remain tight at the back and begin to look more dangerous going forward.

[coprolite]

2 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

The game plan now should be to shitfest our way to a penalty shoot out in Serbia.

Hi Steve, hiya pal! 

2 hours ago, ropy said:

As poor as he was in the first half I though O’Donnell had a good second half, kept his man on his right foot and nullified him, put one of our best crosses into box, snuffed out an attack when our forward play broke down.  Pass marks at least.

Thought he played as well as could be expected. Clearly just that bit below international class but gave an ok account of himself in the back 5 ( not having this back 3 shite) 

2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Interesting that nobody has bothered their tits to do the usual "player ratings" thing tonight
Total muddle of a performance and the very opposite of progressive, but hey ho, we're in the final

I'll have a bash

Any Scotland player 5/10

[Dunning1874]

3 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Caldwell played about 100 games in the English Premiership, won the FA Cup, reached the last 16 of the Champions League twice with Celtic and won the Scottish Football Writers Players of the Year.

How does that compare with Declan Gallagher, Scott McKenna, Liam Cooper or Ryan Porteous?

 

3 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

I never said he wasn't.

I'm pointing out that, despite that, he was on a completely different level to the options we have now in that position.

While I agree that Gary Caldwell was nowhere near as bad as he was made out to be at the time and would be getting a game now, this kind of argument comes up in comparisons with past squads a lot and it's verging into 'Djimi Traore was a great player because he won the Champions League' territory. It's always used to justify Scotland being the worst they've ever been at any given time when that's demonstrably untrue.

While Gary Caldwell specifically would be starting now, many centre backs we did play throughout that decade such as Steven Caldwell, Steven Pressley, Stephen McManus, presumably more players called Stephen, Lee Wilkie and Andy Webster were no better than the first choice centre backs available to us now, despite the fact some of them had greater experience at club level through being surrounded by better players.

Playing in a team which made it to the knockout stages of the Champions League twice was obviously great experience for someone like McManus and that experience likely made him a better player. It didn't magically remove his flaws and mean he was a better player than everyone who hasn't experienced the same progress in Europe, just as Harry Kewell didn't magically become a better player than Zlatan Ibrahimovic because he's the only one of them who's won a Champions League. Reductio ad absurdum I know, but that's what the '12 years ago we had Lee McCulloch who was playing in a team who made it to a European final, John McGinn and Ryan Fraser have never made it to a group stage so we must be worse!' stuff amounts to when it takes no account of either the individual qualites of players or relative strength in depth of squads. We had Gary Teale, Graeme Murty, Stephen Pearson and Jay McEveley playing in the 2008 campaign, but apparently we can only dream of having a squad on the same level now because Celtic were better in Europe then.

The incessant letting managers off the hook by wringing our hands and asking what they could possibly hope to do with players they are misusing through blatantly incorrect tactics needs to stop.

2 hours ago, Gaz FFC said:

Unpopular opinion time. I'm not sure we threw that group away. Those fucking useless Germans failing to beat Ireland fucked us over.

We lost to Georgia. Had we won in Georgia, Ireland's result against Germany would have been irrelevant. That campaign was thrown away by our own incompetence in managing one of the worst results in our history. No one else is to blame.

[bairney]

7 hours ago, jagtastic said:

5 pens dispatched, no problem.

What is it England find so hard about them?

That would be Clive Tyldesley (or whoever) asking his co-commentator, "England to score this one?"

 Co-commentator; "Yes"

It makes the resulting miss even funnier. ☺

Edited October 9, 2020 by bairney

[Antiochas III]

Glad to see McTominay improve at centre back.  Having Gallagher - who strolled it talking to him all game obviously worked.  All in all our defence was pretty solid.  

Our midfield needs to improve massively.  Embarrasing how bad they've been over the last 4 or 5 games especially as they're meant to be our good unit.  

Strikers were ok. Really like Dykes but if your midfield can't create for you or support, not gonna do much.  

[Derry Alli]

5 hours ago, Rscot said:

Indeed, I was working so only seen the highlights, 

You seen Mcleans penalty then. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Just now, Mr. Alli said:

You seen Mcleans penalty then. 

You're up early

[Derry Alli]

1 minute ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

You're up early

Thanks mate. 

[Stellaboz]

Closest we've come since France 98 - in my view - is the 2008 qualifiers, where we seemed to be playing fearlessly, defending convincingly and spunking goals in left right and centre. The time since seems to have been ever more desperate attempts to recapture that. Hard to argue that this side - on that performance - is any better than the toot Levein was putting out.

Closest we came since 98 was probably for Euro 2000.

[BFTD]

41 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

6 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Closest we've come since France 98 - in my view - is the 2008 qualifiers, where we seemed to be playing fearlessly, defending convincingly and spunking goals in left right and centre. The time since seems to have been ever more desperate attempts to recapture that. Hard to argue that this side - on that performance - is any better than the toot Levein was putting out.

Closest we came since 98 was probably for Euro 2000.

Euro 2004 was arguably closer. We'd been humped at home in the first leg against England and we were always chasing parity at Wembley. Still plenty of work to do if Christian Dailly's header had gone in. For 2004, we were 1-0 up against the Dutch at half-time before being found out in the second leg,

That's how some folk have decided the Berti years weren't that bad, despite us just about shading a play-off spot above the Faeroes, Lithuania, and a still-dugshite Iceland.

[kingjoey]

7 hours ago, ropy said:

As poor as he was in the first half I though O’Donnell had a good second half, kept his man on his right foot and nullified him, put one of our best crosses into box, snuffed out an attack when our forward play broke down.  Pass marks at least.

Does the fact that he presently plays for Motherwell have anything to do with that ludicrous assessment of his second half performance?

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

The alternative being you're only happy if the team has a chance of winning the tournament?

Scotland will never in our lifetime* win a major tournament. Are you saying you don't want us to ever qualify for another one again?

* I'm guessing you're around my age.

 

Of course not. Its quite clear you're either struggling to grasp my point, or purposely trying to be as ridiculous as possible to try and miss it, but I have zero expectation of ever seeing Scotland reach the latter stages of a tournament never mind winning it.

My entire point is I don't see this Scotland side under Clarke doing anything other than getting rinsed a couple of times and then knocked out without laying a glove on the tournament, so I'm struggling to get excited about the prospect of qualifying for the Euros when that's what awaits.

[kingjoey]

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

Hi Steve, hiya pal! 

Thought he played as well as could be expected. Clearly just that bit below international class but gave an ok account of himself in the back 5 ( not having this back 3 shite) 

I'll have a bash

Any Scotland player 5/10

McGregor, Jack and O’Donnell got 5???

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Of course not. Its quite clear you're either struggling to grasp my point, or purposely trying to be as ridiculous as possible to try and miss it, but I have zero expectation of ever seeing Scotland reach the latter stages of a tournament never mind winning it.

My entire point is I don't see this Scotland side under Clarke doing anything other than getting rinsed a couple of times and then knocked out without laying a glove on the tournament, so I'm struggling to get excited about the prospect of qualifying for the Euros when that's what awaits.

I keep thinking about the time Ireland qualified under Trappatoni. They'd looked poor in qualifying, and made it to the finals on the back of a pretty favourable draw. They were obviously way out of their depth at the finals and took a good doing. I can't see anything other than that for this Scotland team.

But, you'd take that at this stage just to get back into the action, and I doubt many Irish fans were wishing they'd just never qualified back then.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I keep thinking about the time Ireland qualified under Trappatoni. They'd looked poor in qualifying, and made it to the finals on the back of a pretty favourable draw. They were obviously way out of their depth at the finals and took a good doing. I can't see anything other than that for this Scotland team.

But, you'd take that at this stage just to get back into the action, and I doubt many Irish fans were wishing they'd just never qualified back then.

I mean, its quite obvious I could be absolutely miles out, literally all I've done here is give a half arsed opinion that seems to have somehow turned into me claiming I'll kill myself if Scotland don't win the Euros the next 10 times running.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I mean, its quite obvious I could be absolutely miles out, literally all I've done here is give a half arsed opinion that seems to have somehow turned into me claiming I'll kill myself if Scotland don't win the Euros the next 10 times running.

That's certainly what I've gleaned from your posts.

Hopefully the squad are reading this, and will react accordingly.

[Aufc]

My views on each player

Marshall - didnt have much to do but saved anything that did come his way. Obviously made the save in the shoot out. 

O'Donnell - He is clearly not good enough for international football. Israel quickly realised they could get a lot of joy out of his side and it meant Mctominay had to cover a lot. He was slightly better in the second half. I don't want to slag him too much as he tries hard but we need something else here

Gallagher - thought he played well actually. Was quite comfortable on the ball

Cooper - as above

Robertson - He struggled to be honest. I feel sorry for him. His strength is not running past players and he struggled against the right back. He needs a winger in front of him who opens up the space to allow him to run into. This formation doesn't give him that.

Mctominay - thought he was probably best player alongside Mcginn. Comfortable on the ball and gets stuck in. Missed a sitter though.

Jack - thought he was dreadful. Surely John Fleck cant be that bad?

McGinn - he is becoming Scotlands key player. Strong on the ball and drove us forward. I felt sorry for him as well. Most of the time he drove forward but had no support so had to take long range shots.

Dykes - I like the look of him. Holds the ball up well and has some nice touches and lay offs. Lack of support for him. Him and Mcburnie are too similar. If we insist on two up front then i would think him and Griffiths would work better (assuming Griffths stays fit)

McBurnie - Didnt work for him. As mentioned, him and Dykes are too similar. Glad he showed up and proved he does want to play for us

Fraser - We instantly looked better when he came. His final ball wasnt great but he has hardly played. 

 

Overall it was a pretty shit game but at least we actually won or, at least, got through. I can't help worry about the formation. As i mentioned above, this formation totally nullifies any attacking threat we have and our game plan seems to revolve around not conceding and getting a scrappy goal. This won't work against teams like Serbia. 

As i mentioned above, Robertson is not the best for taking people on. He relies on having a winger in front of him who moves the full back out of position to allow him to run into the space and get a cross in. This formation resulted in Scotland having no width. We had two guys up front who are good in the air but there was no crosses being put in. We also had Mctominay and Jack who are essentially both sitting midfielders. So the ball is being shelled up to McBurnie and Dykes and they were winning their fair share of headers but there was support aside from McGinn. We had no pace and, anytime we got the ball, we were so slow to move that Israel were able to get back into position fairly easily.

Israel were no great shakes but they were much better as transitioning from defence to attack and got men forward quickly. We looked instantly better when we had Fraser on with his pace. 

I realise this formation is probably here to stay and glad we got through but i just cannot see us laying a glove on Serbia. We do have a good players but the formation takes all our strengths away. I personally would like to see us play 4 at the back then there are a couple of options for the remaining numbers. For teams like Israel i would be playing 2 up front then against teams like Serbia i would drop a striker and add another midfielder into it. It seems like Clarke is going to be stubborn like Strachan and do everything to ensure Tierney is playing at left of the three even it means the whole team is thrown out. 

[theoriginalhedge]

I likened last night's match to a game of snooker with the pockets blocked off.  

With both sides deperate not to lose and only one shot on target from either team it was a rather tedious excercise.