Playoff Semi Final , 18th October 2020

[forameus]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Lennon said hes not picking up the phone to Clarke if he wants Griffiths.

Is Griffiths living with Lennon or something?

[G51]

17 minutes ago, forameus said:

There's also the note that you can compare the current job to his previous ones all you like, but International Football is a graveyard of managers that were good at club level but ultimately failed.  It doesn't make them a bad coach or manager, it's just different skill sets.  Just like Michael O'Neill absolutely bossed getting a largely uninspiring Northern Ireland side to perform, but is now managing Stoke and doing just OK.  

I'm usually always on the side of giving manager's time, it took a long time for me to think that Strachan's time was up.  But that was in the times where we were chucked into qualification groups where we were always outside shots of having success.  We now have a two game series, the first of which is eminently winnable, and the second which could go either way.  If he goes out and gives it a good go and we come up short, that's fine.  If he goes out and plays some system that sees the players look like lost wee boys, that's a different story, and one that I'd hope the SFA asked very searching questions about.  We stand largely f**k all chance of getting to Qatar in 2022, so this is likely the best chance we'll get for another 3 years.  Just...don't f**k it up.

I don't think we stand much chance in the second game to be honest, assuming Norway make it through. Though I appreciate there's so much uncertainty at the minute that our odds are probably slightly better than we think they are.

With regards to the different skill sets, this is the frustrating thing: it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. You just have to think through what the disadvantages are to being an international manager, and find a way to mitigate them.

The obvious disadvantage is the lack of time spent with the players, meaning you don't get much time to work on things like defensive and attacking shapes. So what you should do is pick a nice, simple formation that everyone knows (4-3-3 is the obvious one), make a couple of easy to understand tweaks to it for the players based on your opponent and your personnel, then take the rest of your time and use it to work on things that will get you results for little time spent working on them, such as attacking set pieces.

The other major disadvantage is you can't buy in new players to suit your system. But you can call up players who do. They may be of lesser quality, but a good enough manager will be able to hide their deficiencies and accentuate their strengths. Our centre back situation is a classic example of this - we have four centre backs called up - two of them have similar, very well defined strengths and weaknesses (McKenna, Gallagher). The third is almost the inverse of this pairing (Cooper), and the fourth is like the first two, but he also concedes a shit load of fouls to your opponents giving them easy opportunities to exploit (Porteous).

It's a weak area of the team. So hide them - play McKenna and Gallagher, force Israel to play long balls into them that they can handle, and tell them to either lay it off to a better passer, or boot it up the park as soon as they get it. If the ball is on the ground anywhere near them, then somethings gone wrong.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

12 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Lennon said hes not picking up the phone to Clarke if he wants Griffiths.

Its not up to Lennon and no phone call is required.  That's a courtesy is all. He won't be called up but its nothing to do with Lennon either way.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

52 minutes ago, G51 said:

For me, the sign of a top class coach is that the performance of his team is greater than the level of talent in the side. That's how you know a coach is adding value.

Clarke did that with Killie and West Brom. He didn't do that with Reading.  He hasn't come anywhere close to doing that with Scotland.

Now I'd normally be inclined to give a guy that I know can be a good coach some time to let him work things out. Clarke has had that now. We need to start seeing good team performances.

I think your other post is spot on and your analysis is good.  However, we disagree here.  What he has had is nothing like time, he's literally just in the door. 

You need to give him actual time, not half a campaign and a dozen games, judge him after 30 games and three or four years. Look at O'Neill at NI, no wins in his first 15 or so and he's their best manager ever by miles.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

We're fucked anyway, with these call-offs and three games in six days it aint happening unless there's a Covid outbreak in the Norway or Serbia squad too.

[Ro Sham Bo]

Was that the last round of testing, or is another due to be done before the match? 

The situation might actually get worse.

 

[Estragon]

1 minute ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

Was that the last round of testing, or is another due to be done before the match? 

The situation might actually get worse.

 

My thoughts exactly, it seems similar to our testing results from last week.  (Kilmarnock)

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

I think your other post is spot on and your analysis is good.  However, we disagree here.  What he has had is nothing like time, he's literally just in the door. 

You need to give him actual time, not half a campaign and a dozen games, judge him after 30 games and three or four years. Look at O'Neill at NI, no wins in his first 15 or so and he's their best manager ever by miles.

I appreciate that knowing how much time to give a manager is difficult, but for me what I'd be looking for are not the results on the pitch, but the process leading to them. That's how I'd evaluate whether to give him 10 games or 30.

This weekend will be a big indicator for me. Last time out, he totally fucked it with the formation - so much so that the players didn't have a clue what they were doing. If he changes it for a more stable formation, or he sticks with the same one and the structural issues are massively improved, then I'm encouraged by that. If it's the same disaster as last time, or he pulls another wild formation out his arse, then I'm thinking it's time to get rid.

Poor results don't get him the can. He could even survive poor performances. But he can't survive not learning from his mistakes.

[Blootoon87]

Lennon said hes not picking up the phone to Clarke if he wants Griffiths.

Griffiths will be having a house party as we speak, the fucking scumbag.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, G51 said:

I appreciate that knowing how much time to give a manager is difficult, but for me what I'd be looking for are not the results on the pitch, but the process leading to them. That's how I'd evaluate whether to give him 10 games or 30.

This weekend will be a big indicator for me. Last time out, he totally fucked it with the formation - so much so that the players didn't have a clue what they were doing. If he changes it for a more stable formation, or he sticks with the same one and the structural issues are massively improved, then I'm encouraged by that. If it's the same disaster as last time, or he pulls another wild formation out his arse, then I'm thinking it's time to get rid.

Poor results don't get him the can. He could even survive poor performances. But he can't survive not learning from his mistakes.

You make your point well but I'd refer you back to my previous post about this.

If we get to the final by hook or by crook and don't get hammered that's success, if he plays 352 in both games as long as it doesn't look as disjointed as before I wouldn't hold that against him.  

[craigkillie]

8 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

We're fucked anyway, with these call-offs and three games in six days it aint happening unless there's a Covid outbreak in the Norway or Serbia squad too.

What difference does the three games in six days make? If we can get past Israel, which is our only priority right now, then the current call-offs are irrelevant for the final given that it's a month away.

[Savage Henry]

22 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Its not up to Lennon and no phone call is required.  That's a courtesy is all. He won't be called up but its nothing to do with Lennon either way.

Willy gets his news from the Celtic View.  Neil Lennon says... begins all of his opinions.

 

Edit: presumably, we’ll be calling up nobody.  

Edited October 7, 2020 by Savage Henry

[accies1874]

Burke, McKenna and Palmer all out. 

[G51]

@JordanC1107

I understand that under UEFA protocol the next series of testing happens on Friday. Game not in doubt at the moment despite the absences. As long as you have thirteen players including a goalkeeper the game goes ahead. Too late for any players to be called-up due to testing.

[pandarilla]

Burke, McKenna and Palmer all out. 

Connected to the first 3?

We're going to have to forfeit aren't we?

[DAFC.]

Wouldn’t have wanted Burke playing but given Christie is out...

And I would have thought Palmer would start given Tierney is also missing...

Some laugh!

Anyway, even with what you could say was a “full squad” I wouldn’t be holding out much hope of a resounding win. Clarke has clearly instilled shitebag tactics in to the squad ie launch the ball at any moment aimlessly, let the opposition dictate play, invite copious amounts of pressure and hope the keeper has a blinder.

I’m actually glad McKenna is out. I’d genuinely start Porteous ahead of him. McKenna has been a complete fraud his whole career.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

32 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

We're fucked anyway, with these call-offs and three games in six days it aint happening unless there's a Covid outbreak in the Norway or Serbia squad too.

Not sure how a Norway or Serbia game in a month is relevant right now?

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Not sure how a Norway or Serbia game in a month is relevant right now?

It's looking increasingly like it will be completely irrelevant for us to be honest.

[accies1874]

7 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Connected to the first 3?

We're going to have to forfeit aren't we?

Nah, they're injured. 

[Bishop Briggs]

9 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Connected to the first 3?

We're going to have to forfeit aren't we?

No - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54453593

"Manager Steve Clarke also revealed that defenders Scott McKenna and Liam Palmer and attacker Oliver Burke will be absent for all three matches through injury."

And no. "Scottish FA chief executive Ian Maxwell confirmed that the rest of the squad have "returned two rounds of negative tests" and will continue to prepare for the upcoming matches"

But  "A team masseur and a physiotherapist are also self-isolating after being deemed as close contacts by the Lothian Health Protection Team."