EPL 20/21

[Bairnardo]

Yes. The issue is with VAR, not the offside rule.
If technology let them they'd literally take the measurement of offsides down to the atomic level.
No rule or refs interpretation of a rule will ever be perfect no matter how much IFAB tinker. Mistakes happen as well.
Remove the lines, remove offside from VAR or better yet, get VAR to f**k.

Give the VAR official 30 seconds and no stupid lines. Make the call based on the best freeze frame available in that time.

[charger29]

Give the VAR official 30 seconds and no stupid lines. Make the call based on the best freeze frame available in that time.

I agreed that if VAR is to stay then a time limit should be there.
If there are already several officials in the VAR room then give two of them correct/incorrect buttons with the ref having the third. No communication allowed between them when watching the replay and the majority vote is the accepted decision. Surely that would get rid of atrocious decisions like the Soucek red and perhaps be useful for offsides too.

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

The problem with an Umpire's Call is that the linesmen at the moment are often keeping their flags down to let VAR judge instead and avoid good goals being ruled out. At the moment it is not possible to watch a game and say 'well the linesman didn't give offside, and VAR is inconclusive so give the goal' because it may that the linesman thought it was offside too but let it run so VAR could look at it.

An Umpire's Call would require linesmen not doing as described above - instead officiating as if VAR wasn't there. That would mean there would be situations were linesmen were preventing perfectly good goals by wrongly flagging early for offside. I think that's a backward step.

They've got a headset by which they can communicate their call verbally to the referee or fourth official without sticking up their flag. They can be instructed to make that judgment call as they would have done before while keeping their flag down - this becomes the default call that only a clear and obvious error can overturn. 

The idea that offside is an 'objective' call that technology has the decisive word on has been proven to be bollocks about a thousand times now and so this is the sensible roll-back to the least bad of all options. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[HalfCutNinja]

Officialdom is ruining football. Jumped-up little men who think their views are of importance can't stop interfering with the game and every time they make it worse not better.

The Fulham goal last night was never handball. If that is handball the rule is incorrect. Werner's goal was onside.  If that is offside the rule is incorrect. Both instances the ruling goes against the spirit of the game, and its taking away from enjoyment of the game.

[Distant Doonhamer]

Officialdom is ruining football. Jumped-up little men who think their views are of importance can't stop interfering with the game and every time they make it worse not better.
The Fulham goal last night was never handball. If that is handball the rule is incorrect. Werner's goal was onside.  If that is offside the rule is incorrect. Both instances the ruling goes against the spirit of the game, and its taking away from enjoyment of the game.

So what your saying is that officialdom is ruining football while simultaneously acknowledging that said officials might be (correctly) applying shite rules?
Edit to add just realised it’s possibly those who make the rules that you are criticising rather than those applying them. Not sure though.

[Diamonds are Forever]

22 minutes ago, virginton said:

They've got a headset by which they can communicate their call verbally to the referee or fourth official without sticking up their flag. They can be instructed to make that judgment call as they would have done before while keeping their flag down - this becomes the default call that only a clear and obvious error can overturn. 

The idea that offside is an 'objective' call that technology has the decisive word on has been proven to be bollocks about a thousand times now and so this is the sensible roll-back to the least bad of all options. 

 

My issue is more with people looking at current incidents and saying that the goal should have been allowed because it wasn't an obvious enough error to overturn the linesman, when in reality we don't currently know what linesmen truly think because we aren't privy to what they are saying in their headsets.

I agree that sounds like the 'least worse' solution, but I still question how you define a clear and obvious error when deciding whether to stick with or overturn a decision? There would surely need to be some objective criteria used to apply this, like specified margins of error in the technology?

[HalfCutNinja]

25 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

So what your saying is that officialdom is ruining football while simultaneously acknowledging that said officials might be (correctly) applying shite rules?
Edit to add just realised it’s possibly those who make the rules that you are criticising rather than those applying them. Not sure though.

Those who fiddle with the rules every year thinking somehow they are qualified to do so are steadily ruining the game.

That nonsense with the Fulham goal last night is ridiculous. Never in a million years should that be handball, and if the rule says it is then the rule is wrong. Same with Werner getting ruled offside because his arm was offside. Farcical.

[Diamonds are Forever]

57 minutes ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Officialdom is ruining football. Jumped-up little men who think their views are of importance can't stop interfering with the game and every time they make it worse not better.

The Fulham goal last night was never handball. If that is handball the rule is incorrect. Werner's goal was onside.  If that is offside the rule is incorrect. Both instances the ruling goes against the spirit of the game, and its taking away from enjoyment of the game.

 

On the specific incidents it could just be that the officials got them wrong, one bad decision doesn't necessarily mean the laws are wrong, just that mistakes were made. Although I don't generally disagree - the handball law is a joke just now.

There are many people to blame but I'd have referees pretty far down the list to be honest (I know you seem to be blaming the rule makers more than refs). VAR may help referees ultimately get more correct decisions, but it also just highlights and amplifies their mistakes even more and they are having to balance refereeing a game in real time and doing an ongoing review of their decisions. Also, they get no credit for eventually achieving the correct decision - in fact all it does is highlight that they were wrong to begin with. Even when they are right they may be seen to be wrong - the earlier example of linesmen thinking it's offside but leaving their flag down to allow VAR to decide means onlookers will think the linesman has got it wrong, when they maybe didn't. Referees will do the same in certain situations by letting the game flow if it's a borderline decision and then let VAR look at it.

I think the people at the top have tied themselves in knots due to pressure from entitled clubs and fans demanding perfection in decision making, and the referees (for all their flaws) have taken the brunt of it.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Diamonds are Forever

[DukDukGoose]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

I'd change offside so that it relates to the feet only, i.e. the position of a player's feet is how offside is judged, so arms, knees, shoulders, heads, chests etc can't be offside, only the feet. 

You'd still get some mental calls but not nearly as many and it would be a fairer way of doing things.

I think you'd have to include the head too. Gives the striker an unfair advantage if he's offside plus sprinting. 

[Ex Machina]

1 hour ago, HalfCutNinja said:

Officialdom is ruining football. Jumped-up little men who think their views are of importance can't stop interfering with the game and every time they make it worse not better.

The Fulham goal last night was never handball. If that is handball the rule is incorrect. Werner's goal was onside.  If that is offside the rule is incorrect. Both instances the ruling goes against the spirit of the game, and its taking away from enjoyment of the game.

The Fulham goal was an offside as the rules on handball when defending and attacking differ. These are the rules directly from IFAB and the Fulham goal would fall under the third bullet point. 

[HalfCutNinja]

3 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

On the specific incidents it could just be that the officials got them wrong, one bad decision doesn't necessarily mean the laws are wrong, just that mistakes were made. Although I don't generally disagree - the handball law is a joke just now.

There are many people to blame but I'd have referees pretty far down the list to be honest (I know you seem to be blaming the rule makers more than refs). VAR may help referees ultimately get more correct decisions, but it also just highlights and amplifies their mistakes even more and they are having to balance refereeing a game in real time and doing an ongoing review of their decisions. Also, they get no credit for eventually achieving the correct decision - in fact all it does is highlight that they were wrong to begin with. Even when they are right they may be seen to be wrong - the earlier example of linesmen thinking it's offside but leaving their flag down to allow VAR to decide means onlookers will think the linesman has got it wrong, when they maybe didn't. Referees will do the same in certain situations by letting the game flow if it's a borderline decision and then let VAR look at it.

I think the people at the top have tied themselves in knots due to pressure from entitled clubs and fans demanding perfection in decision making, and the referees (for all their flaws) have taken the brunt of it.

 

I'm not blaming the referees, they are just applying the rules as they are set. Its the people who are setting the rules who are getting it wrong.

[HalfCutNinja]

2 hours ago, ListerRRFC said:

The Fulham goal was an offside as the rules on handball when defending and attacking differ. These are the rules directly from IFAB and the Fulham goal would fall under the third bullet point. 

Not anymore https://www.joe.co.uk/sport/accidental-handball-leading-to-a-teammate-scoring-will-no-longer-be-an-offence-ifab-announce-265594

 

And that illustrates the point. Handball should be handball. The same rule all the time, everywhere on the park, attacking and defending, everywhere in the world, at every level of the game.

The fact it isn't is farical. Also the fact they have now changed this rule within hours of an evidence exposing how ridiculous it is (just as they did earlier in the season when Aston Villa played Man City) shows how badly thought out they are.

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 hours ago, charger29 said:

 

Yes. The issue is with VAR, not the offside rule.
If technology let them they'd literally take the measurement of offsides down to the atomic level.
No rule or refs interpretation of a rule will ever be perfect no matter how much IFAB tinker. Mistakes happen as well.
Remove the lines, remove offside from VAR or better yet, get VAR to f**k.

 

And that's the problem the football authorities failed to anticipate. VAR is too accurate for football when used at it's capacity.

They should have implemented an old version that left some margins or not have bothered at all.

As it is we have decisions made on the strength of images where the important but is barely visible under a microscope.

[vikingTON]

10 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

I agree that sounds like the 'least worse' solution, but I still question how you define a clear and obvious error when deciding whether to stick with or overturn a decision? There would surely need to be some objective criteria used to apply this, like specified margins of error in the technology?

Can it be resolved at a look at the monitor within a maximum number of seconds (15, 30 maximum)? Yes/No.

As soon as some poindexter tries to get a ruler out and draw fictional lines, the on-field verdict stands.

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by vikingTON

[peasy23]

Burnley's defence parts like the Red Sea to allow Aubameyang to fire Arsenal in front in the 6th minute. Pope got a hand to it but couldn't keep it out.

[Jambomo]

I love how they are almost constantly apologising for bad language now They should just get a notice up on the screen

[peasy23]

"Apologies if you heard any bad language around the time of the Arsenal goal."

Sean Dyche going tonto imo.

[Jambomo]

What’s wrong with the pitch? The ball doesn’t look like it’s running much at all

[accies1874]

Nah, there's no way Calum Chambers is still at Arsenal. I'd have been less surprised if I saw him lining up for Burnley today.

[Jambomo]

7 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

Nah, there's no way Calum Chambers is still at Arsenal. I'd have been less surprised if I saw him lining up for Burnley today.

Phil Bardsley is on the bench for them. He must be nearly 50 by now. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Jambomo