Train derailment

[die hard doonhamer]

3 dead, 1 missing, according to HuffPost on Facebook.

[Aim Here]

9 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I'm not having that in 2020 a train can derail and it takes two hours before anyone notices. No way.

The alternative is that in 2020, a train took well over two hours to go 20 miles. Take your pick.

Both are rather unlikely, but the circumstances of the crash would probably go with the former; if the crash was catastrophic enough to put crew and passengers out of action for some time, remote enough that there were no bystanders, and the train was no longer expected to be anywhere at a particular time due to it being rerouted back to Aberdeen, it would require a bit of foresight to develop an automatic system that managed to detect that there was an accident and flash a red light on someone's console, and even if it did, there's the possibility that one or more human errors occurred along the way. Plus at least one national newspaper is suggesting that's the way things are, skewing the odds further in that direction.

 

 

[Lofarl]

20 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I'm not having that in 2020 a train can derail and it takes two hours before anyone notices. No way.

Two names for you.  John Yuill Lamara Bell.

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, Aim Here said:

The alternative is that in 2020, a train took well over two hours to go 20 miles. Take your pick.

Both are rather unlikely, but the circumstances of the crash would probably go with the former; if the crash was catastrophic enough to put crew and passengers out of action for some time, remote enough that there were no bystanders, and the train was no longer expected to be anywhere at a particular time due to it being rerouted back to Aberdeen, it would require a bit of foresight to develop an automatic system that managed to detect that there was an accident and flash a red light on someone's console, and even if it did, there's the possibility that one or more human errors occurred along the way. Plus at least one national newspaper is suggesting that's the way things are, skewing the odds further in that direction.

 

 

It would surely take a huge amount of time to get permission for a train to actually reverse course on a main artery track, even if there were no trains scheduled immediately behind it. I've been sat on a train for an hour and a half before just trying to get past a single broken-down train outside Haymarket.

Edited August 12, 2020 by vikingTON

[superbigal]

Three people, including the driver, have been pronounced dead at the scene of the train derailment in Stonehaven, in Aberdeenshire, and six people have been taken to hospital, British Transport Police said.

 

This tallys with the earlier reports of 3 crew and 6 passengers.

Edited August 12, 2020 by superbigal

[Stellaboz]

Grim. Absolutely grim. Those pictures are like something out of a film. 

[flyingscot]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

It would surely take a huge amount of time to get permission for a train to actually reverse course on a main artery track, even if there were no trains scheduled immediately behind it. I've been sat on a train for an hour and a half before just trying to get past a single broken-down train outside Haymarket.

Yeah, any time I've been disrupted it's not been a quick process and with good reason, signalling is taken seriously to avoid incidents happening. 

Doesn't seem to make sense that it was heading south from location and photos but guess that will be cleared up. 

 

[tamthebam]

BBC says that the" UK Transport Minister" Grant Shapps is to visit the scene. 

I'm not turning this into a Union/Independence thing and I'm happy for Mr Shapps to visit if some good will come of the disaster, I just wonder what his locus is as transport is devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Is it because Network Rail comes under Grant Shapps' ministry as it's a UK wide concern? 

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, tamthebam said:

BBC says that the" UK Transport Minister" Grant Shapps is to visit the scene. 

I'm not turning this into a Union/Independence thing and I'm happy for Mr Shapps to visit if some good will come of the disaster, I just wonder what his locus is as transport is devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Is it because Network Rail comes under Grant Shapps' ministry as it's a UK wide concern? 

If he's standing next to a burning train no-one will ask him about Covid or the recession, is my bet.

[Hedgecutter]

4 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Yeah, any time I've been disrupted it's not been a quick process and with good reason, signalling is taken seriously to avoid incidents happening. 

I suppose it's not just other trains that one needs to account for.  I for one would feel somewhat aggrieved if my car Dial A Bus bus got smashed up at the Carmont level crossing by the same train that had sped past a short while earlier. 

[flyingscot]

14 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

BBC says that the" UK Transport Minister" Grant Shapps is to visit the scene. 

I'm not turning this into a Union/Independence thing and I'm happy for Mr Shapps to visit if some good will come of the disaster, I just wonder what his locus is as transport is devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Is it because Network Rail comes under Grant Shapps' ministry as it's a UK wide concern? 

Not all rail functions are devolved IIRC. I think rail accident investigation is UK wide which will fall under his concern. 

[Ginaro]

3 minutes ago, RiG said:

The BBC live updates have aerial images of the accident. One passenger carriage has gone down the embankment and one power car remains on the track together with three other carriages. I assume one of them is the other power car but it's hard to see where it is in the wreckage.

The leading power car is on the right, in amongst trees. Must have derailed just as it was coming off the bridge.

[JamesP_81]

It would surely take a huge amount of time to get permission for a train to actually reverse course on a main artery track, even if there were no trains scheduled immediately behind it. I've been sat on a train for an hour and a half before just trying to get past a single broken-down train outside Haymarket.

2 hour delay for stopping to report flooding, wait for the signaller to discuss what action to take with network rail and get back to you with a plan is completely possible. My train was delayed by an hour between Larbert and cumbernauld last week due to flooding and I wasn't even the first one to come across it.

If reports are true that he's then went back to a crossing point and changed from the up to the down line this could easily account for the 2 missing hours. I'm not overly familiar with that line but it's pretty similar in nature to the Highland main line north of Perth and you could be going back 10 miles or more to reach a crossing point then wait for a points operator to come and crank them across. All of this done at caution (be prepared to stop in the distance you can see to be clear) and then running reduced speed when running in the wrong direction on the other line when you set sail again.

Seems most likely that it's ballast washed away from under the track, been a couple of incidents like that in recent years on the Highland line and just been luck that no train has hit them at any kind of speed or else the results would have been similar. He wouldn't have been needing to be going at anywhere near line speed to create these scenes, I've seen a freight train run into the back of another at 26mph and the resulting pictures were horrifying.

[RiG]

7 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

The leading power car is on the right, in amongst trees. Must have derailed just as it was coming off the bridge.

Yeah spotted it after watching the BBC footage so I deleted my post. Completely unfathomable how it's end up all over the place. The RAIB are going to have some job looking into this.

[101]

54 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

BBC says that the" UK Transport Minister" Grant Shapps is to visit the scene. 

I'm not turning this into a Union/Independence thing and I'm happy for Mr Shapps to visit if some good will come of the disaster, I just wonder what his locus is as transport is devolved to the Scottish Parliament. Is it because Network Rail comes under Grant Shapps' ministry as it's a UK wide concern? 

Unless he has concerns around how the investigation is being carried out I don't think it's wise to travel the length of the country for what is usually a photo opportunity. The memorial service would be a far more fitting reason to be in Aberdeenshire

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

20 minutes ago, 101 said:

Unless he has concerns around how the investigation is being carried out I don't think it's wise to travel the length of the country for what is usually a photo opportunity. The memorial service would be a far more fitting reason to be in Aberdeenshire

I would hope that he doesn't listen to you.

The head of netowrk rail, Grant Schapps (sec of state), Michael Matheson (Scottish Transport Minister) and lead investigator from British Transport Police should all be on site tomorrow. It is literally the opposite of a photo opportunity.  People are going to want answers and the first step is putting in place the right foundations. And those people have the job of making sure it happens. Failing to visit the scene would be a deriliction of duty.

Wider questions now about whether Scotland and UK infrastructure is robust enough to cope with climate change.

[101]

3 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I would hope that he doesn't listen to you.

The head of netowrk rail, Grant Schapps (sec of state), Michael Matheson (Scottish Transport Minister) and lead investigator from British Transport Police should all be on site tomorrow. It is literally the opposite of a photo opportunity.  People are going to want answers and the first step is putting in place the right foundations. And those people have the job of making sure it happens. Failing to visit the scene would be a deriliction of duty.

Wider questions now about whether Scotland and UK infrastructure is robust enough to cope with climate change.

Luckily for you I don't control government ministers. 

I don't think it's wise for the key political leaders to go to the scene during a spike in cases near to where they are visiting. Let the investigators do their job, I don't see what good can come of them visiting the scene at this time.

[Newbornbairn]

41 minutes ago, 101 said:

Luckily for you I don't control government ministers. 

I don't think it's wise for the key political leaders to go to the scene during a spike in cases near to where they are visiting. Let the investigators do their job, I don't see what good can come of them visiting the scene at this time.

Because they'll be criticised if they don't. Look at the puerile shite thrown at Johnson when he didn't run around with a bucket when there was floods in England. 

[beefybake]

The conductor was one of the 3 people who have died.

[101]

22 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Because they'll be criticised if they don't. Look at the puerile shite thrown at Johnson when he didn't run around with a bucket when there was floods in England. 

True, I guess Boris will come up with Shapps self isolating.