COVID-19 In Scottish Football

[Billy Jean King]

What the Utd outbreak will prove / disprove is the effectiveness of the SPFL protocols. There will now be an NHS MIT investigation and should Utd not be able to fulfill any fixtures, an SPFL enquiry. If these investigations prove Utd have followed all SPFL protocol but still an outbreak has spread through their squad then it calls into serious question the effectiveness of the SPFL protocols in the first place. The Saints and Killie cases couldn't shed any light on that as both breached the protocols but if the next club affected doesn't and yet a positive case still lead to spread then questions need to be asked.
I suspect the SPFL stance will be that it worked as it (for now) has prevented a postponement but that is surely secondary to protecting the health and wellbeing of players and staff at member clubs.

[Billy Jean King]

 
You do wonder if they would have asked for a postponement if it hadn’t been for what happened to us yesterday.
If we had known we were going to get 0-3 awarded against us we would have sent out our youth team for both games, like United will do tomorrow.
Hindsight etc.

Can they, thought testing rules precluded that or so the word was at the time it hit us. Don't think non 1st team squad players are included in the SPFL testing regime.

[santheman]

22 minutes ago, DMCs said:

What other leagues has this happened in? Seems near unprecedented - Juventus were awarded a 3 nil win against Napoli but as far as I can tell that's the only other instance?

Happened in the WOSFL this season. 

Drumchapel given a 3 0 walkover against Yorker who couldn’t fulfill a fixture because of Covid

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

What the Utd outbreak will prove / disprove is the effectiveness of the SPFL protocols. There will now be an NHS MIT investigation and should Utd not be able to fulfill any fixtures, an SPFL enquiry. If these investigations prove Utd have followed all SPFL protocol but still an outbreak has spread through their squad then it calls into serious question the effectiveness of the SPFL protocols in the first place. The Saints and Killie cases couldn't shed any light on that as both breached the protocols but if the next club affected doesn't and yet a positive case still lead to spread then questions need to be asked.
I suspect the SPFL stance will be that it worked as it (for now) has prevented a postponement but that is surely secondary to protecting the health and wellbeing of players and staff at member clubs.

The evidence so far is that the SPFL protocols are quite good at limiting the spread within a club.

We must be at the stage now where most clubs have had a positive case, but there have only been outbreaks where the protocols haven't been observed.

[vikingTON]

That self-congratulatory 'at least we Saint Mirren fans are taking the decision with dignity' call is ageing well I see.

[Billy Jean King]

The evidence so far is that the SPFL protocols are quite good at limiting the spread within a club.
We must be at the stage now where most clubs have had a positive case, but there have only been outbreaks where the protocols haven't been observed.

We'll soon see !

[Sarto Mutiny]

If it can be shown that United have breached the rules in the way that Kilmarnock and St Mirrren did, then I would expect the same punishment to be heading our way if we cannot fulfil the next two fixtures. Just without the same tears and snotters.

A 3-0 defeat against Rangers is probably a better result than we would have managed on the pitch anyway.

[ropy]

39 minutes ago, Lex said:

Oh my.

3 points to Motherwell

[LiviLion]

Entire coaching staff and 9 players isolating; how does that happen if they're following protocols? Could even be a freak coincidence and a few staff member's spouses/kids have passed it to them and it's not spread in the club at all. No way of the SPFL knowing but they'll continue to make it up as they go along.

Irrelevant if tomorrow's game goes ahead instead of being postponed, but reckon United are one of the clubs that the SPFL would have given a rearranged game instead of a forfeit in any case.

Edited December 4, 2020 by LiviLion

[Jack Burton]

If it can be shown that United have breached the rules in the way that Kilmarnock and St Mirrren did, then I would expect the same punishment to be heading our way if we cannot fulfil the next two fixtures. Just without the same tears and snotters.

A 3-0 defeat against Rangers is probably a better result than we would have managed on the pitch anyway.

As long as you fulfil the fixtures there is no investigation, is that right?

Or is there an investigation anyway which could potentially overturn the results of the fixtures if the rules have been broken?

[Lex]

As long as you fulfil the fixtures there is no investigation, is that right?

Or is there an investigation anyway which could potentially overturn the results of the fixtures if the rules have been broken?

One of the messages we get from yesterday is if you have had some covid issues just get an 11 on the pitch.
If you don’t you’re going to lose 3-0.

[Sarto Mutiny]

As long as you fulfil the fixtures there is no investigation, is that right?

Or is there an investigation anyway which could potentially overturn the results of the fixtures if the rules have been broken?

I would guess if we fulfil the fixtures but it can be shown that we have breached the rules, there would be a suspended fine similar to the ones Killie and St Mirren have received, but no points deductions or anything like that. I guess the SPFL's main concern is that games actually go ahead as scheduled.

[sergie's no1 fan]

Given the fact if someone is infectious and both of you are wearing a mask, if they cough in doors you can still catch it through your eyes, it's pretty hard to stop a spread once it has reached your work place, unless you shut the place down for weeks.

As for StMirren I don't think we can have any complaints about the punishment. Folk will point to Celtic and Aberdeen but they were 'free hits' which the Scot Gov didn't take too kindly to.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, DMCs said:

What other leagues has this happened in? Seems near unprecedented - Juventus were awarded a 3 nil win against Napoli but as far as I can tell that's the only other instance?

 

36 minutes ago, santheman said:

Happened in the WOSFL this season. 

Drumchapel given a 3 0 walkover against Yorker who couldn’t fulfill a fixture because of Covid

That was the total opposite. Yoker had 1 positive case, and said they wouldn't play so cancelled the game, but they couldn't demonstrate that other players were positive or had been told to isolate, so it was forfeited 3-0 against them. (They returned to training and played the next week). WOSFL specifically clarified that had 7+ players been positive or isolating they would've granted a postponement - as they apparently had done in another unnamed instance.

To contast with Premiership examples: Yoker's protocols had seemingly worked (no outbreak and no orders for others to isolate) but decided they didn't wish to play.

Nairn have had opening 2 games in HL cancelled after 1 positive case and some players told to isolate, but no chance will they be awarded against them IMO.

Edited December 4, 2020 by HibeeJibee

[bennett]

This is going to affect most clubs at one point or other, will United try and put a team or try to postpone the upcoming games?

[welldaft]

I did think it was a little bizarre that 3 x coaching staff were affected but NO players. Clearly this shows that proper self isolation protocols are now being followed. 

This will affect every club, some more severe than others. The 3-0 forfeit has probably proven in such a short time  that clubs will do all they can to get the game on. It was not a popular view at the time but Maurice Ross did say he feels it would be easy to say you do not have enough players even if at a push you could field a team. This has proven that clubs will still try and play the game if at all possible. I am not saying it was the correct thing to do, even though it benefited us but it will and is already acting as a deterrent. 

I think most clubs would take 3-0 v Rangers especially at Ibrox. Defeatist yes but there will be plenty bigger hammering handed out ! 

Also depends how many 1st team are affected. It may only be three or four. Bad enough but does not guarantee a Livi win. 
 

[Billy Jean King]

As long as you fulfil the fixtures there is no investigation, is that right?

Or is there an investigation anyway which could potentially overturn the results of the fixtures if the rules have been broken?

No SPFL investigation but the outbreak will trigger an NHS investigation as it would any workplace mass outbreak. That evidence was crucial in our case.

[kdyteejay]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

This is going to affect most clubs at one point or other, will United try and put a team or try to postpone the upcoming games?

Hopefully postpone next weeks game v the Rangers. It will be better to get 3-0 given to them rather than the score it would be if we actually played them.

[CambieBud]

All of this shows the farce of continuing to play football in these unprecedented times. Football is a contact sport, that cannot be avoided. In Dundee Utd’s case, they are in the position of having to cobble together a side at short notice, or ask for a postponement and risk being awarded a 3-0 defeat. This is no way for a so called professional sport to behave.

[craigkillie]

53 minutes ago, G51 said:

The evidence so far is that the SPFL protocols are quite good at limiting the spread within a club.

We must be at the stage now where most clubs have had a positive case, but there have only been outbreaks where the protocols haven't been observed.

It doesn't really show that, because we don't actually know whether the protocols were observed to the letter at the clubs where there was only one positive case, given that there were no investigations into those clubs.

When St Mirren had their first positive cases back in August, only a small number of players were infected or asked to isolate. You would therefore have concluded that the protocols were being followed properly. However, we subsequently discovered that St Mirren were breaching them in quite a number of areas. Therefore it would seem that either the lack of spread the first time was good luck, or the spread the second time was bad luck, whichever way you want to look at it.

It's entirely possible (and I'd actually say very likely) that Hamilton, Aberdeen or any of the other clubs who have been affected have also been breaching the protocols in one way or other, but were just fortunate that they didn't have a further spread.