SEETHING Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Thoughts and prayers with St Mirren fans in this difficult time; being arbitration arbitrarily punished for circumstances outwith their control. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiedeza Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 How does sitting close to each other for a meal or a coach compare to the dressing room celebrations after the Scotland qualification game!!! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 minute ago, SEETHING said: Thoughts and prayers with St Mirren fans in this difficult time; being arbitration arbitrarily punished for circumstances outwith their control. Are we still pretending being bottom of the league is outwith your control? 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Jenkins Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, G51 said: The reason Aberdeen and Celtic got off lightly is that these breaches didn't happen while the players were actually working. At the risk of treading old ground.....that actually makes it 10x worse! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Good news for Motherwell, not so good for St Mirren and Killie. We'll need to be careful here, can't afford any points being deducted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theatom Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheScarf said: Have I missed the glaring point here, why can't the games just be played at a later date? Like when their postponed due to the weather. I agree .. this way Motherwell and Hamilton gain at the expense of the whole league. Would it not been fairer to deduct the 3 points as punishment to Saints and Killie but play the games later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEETHING Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said: Are we still pretending being bottom of the league is outwith your control? It was outwith my personal control, yes. HMFC bafflingly went with Joel Pereira in goals instead. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, G51 said: The SPFL's argument for harsher punishments for St Mirren and Killie appears to be that both clubs were responsible for the players when the breaches of the rules happened, i.e. the players were working at the time. The SPFL then goes on to say that these breaches "factually" led to COVID outbreaks at both clubs, which is an almost impossible thing to prove. The reason Aberdeen and Celtic got off lightly is that these breaches didn't happen while the players were actually working. Not quite. They've left themself just enough wriggle room: The overarching principle was to ensure that there was created a low risk of transmission of the virus, but it is factually clear that the virus did transmit between players in the club. The club failed to ensure that transmission risk was as low as it could be. So what they're saying is factually there were outbreaks, and in panel's view a failure to minimise risk (to avoid them) makes them sanctionable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, killiedeza said: How does sitting close to each other for a meal or a coach compare to the dressing room celebrations after the Scotland qualification game!!! Aye, that's a good point. This will probably be explained as SFA/spfl tho... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Just now, HibeeJibee said: Not quite. They've left themself just enough wriggle room: The overarching principle was to ensure that there was created a low risk of transmission of the virus, but it is factually clear that the virus did transmit between players in the club. The club failed to ensure that transmission risk was as low as it could be. So what they're saying is factually there were outbreaks, and in panel's view a failure to minimise risk (to avoid them) makes them sanctionable. Spoken like a true lawyer, sir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) It’s a a very poor decision. In fact no matter what the breach forfeits don’t make sense in a league structure. The evidence seems pretty damming and the spfl can justify harsher punishments than Celtic/Aberdeen given these are full club breaches and not individual players. The fines should have been the immediate punishment with suspended point deductions if further breaches. Games still get played. Still a firm decision but fair in the consequences for the rest of the league. Edited December 3, 2020 by parsforlife 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, G51 said: Spoken like a true lawyer, sir. Raises an interesting spin-off though... shouldn't they sanction anyone "failing to minimise risk" even when they do not "factually" suffer a postponement-causing outbreak? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Just now, HibeeJibee said: Raises an interesting spin-off though... shouldn't they sanction anyone "failing to minimise risk" even when they do not "factually" suffer a postponement-causing outbreak? This is the problem in general. It feels like Covid issues (whether sanctions against clubs or players testing positive/having to self isolate) is a total lottery and does compromise the integrity of the league slightly. I suppose we just have to accept it for one season that it'll be like this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superkillieaway Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 What this is basically going to lead to is that any accusations towards other clubs will be completely denied, no matter what. Lie Lie Lie (potentially what celtic done when they had no clue Bolingoli was in Spain). Admitting to any wrongdoing was the clubs biggest fault here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Pretty 'draconian'. Basically seems they're saying Killie and St Mirren were egregiously irresponsible in not observing distancing rules on buses at meals and in training while running under the Premiership's special protocols/testing/bubbles/etc. https://spfl.co.uk/news/kilmarnock-fc-and-st-mirren-fc-disciplinary-outc Kilmarnock admitted a number of breaches of the SPFL’s Covid-19 Regulations. These admitted breaches involved the seating arrangements on the coach and at the pre-match meal for an away game. In both cases it was admitted by the club that there was a failure to observe physical distancing. It seems like this essentially boils down to us following the Scottish government's 1m distancing rather than the SPFL mandated 2m. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said: Raises an interesting spin-off though... shouldn't they sanction anyone "failing to minimise risk" even when they do not "factually" suffer a postponement-causing outbreak? That’s what they should be doing, however they only seem to look into things if clubs have an outbreak. It would seem that having an outbreak is the true issue, and it’s after that occurs clubs need to prove themselves to be perfect in their protocols. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Raises an interesting spin-off though... shouldn't they sanction anyone "failing to minimise risk" even when they do not "factually" suffer a postponement-causing outbreak? Going by this ruling they should, but it would be extremely difficult for them to monitor that. Killie and St Mirren can feel hard done by here I think. It is probably a more serious offence than Aberdeen and Celtic's, but I can't see how it justifies forfeits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 It does seem a bit like they're taking the approach of waiting for a game to have to be postponed, and then working backwards to find a reason to punish the clubs for it. They're even clutching at straws about punishments dished out in knock-out cup competitions and some sort of four-week jumped up friendly tournaments in rugby as some sort of precedent, which gives it a bit of a kangaroo court vibe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_MFC Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 It seems like this essentially boils down to us following the Scottish government's 1m distancing rather than the SPFL mandated 2m.Would seem reasonable that a club is expected to operate by the rules set down by the competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MP_MFC said: 20 minutes ago, craigkillie said: It seems like this essentially boils down to us following the Scottish government's 1m distancing rather than the SPFL mandated 2m. Would seem reasonable that a club is expected to operate by the rules set down by the competition. That they signed up to. The only problem is the SPFL thought the clubs wouldn't be stupid enough to break the rules they didn't build in punishments Edited December 3, 2020 by Antiochas III 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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