Mighty Montrose FC Thread

[Robert Forbes]

13 hours ago, Brummo said:

Way too much deference being shown to new money wannabes i.m.o.

The pyramid in Scotland is not achieving much as far as building up the game goes.

Who has benefitted so far? The  big city teams and the rich men's playthings.

What's to applaud about throwing a ton of money at a team and seeing it rocket up the leagues through buying success? Okay, twas ever thus and that's football but when after seeing Gretna do it then crash and burn, I can't see much merit in it to be honest.

 

It's great to see different clubs making it up to the SPFL, freshens up a stale old arrangement that has existed for far too long. It's great too that so many people are more than willing to invest in Scottish football. Gretna? Perhaps, but maybe these clubs, or some of them, are planning to become financially stable ready for the time when the moneymen depart.

[Brummo]

4 hours ago, leomessi1984 said:

Bonnyrigg should be next followed by the big West clubs. That should improve your mood! 

Great news. Fabulous that the parallel universe that is junior football is being dismantled, isn't it?

Refreshing that big city teams are making it while dead wood goes to the wall, isn't  it?

Delighted to hear Brora are being pumped up with a fresh infusion of cash to challenge Fraserburgh: isn't it refreshing?

Such good news for Fife football that Kelty are thriving while Cowdenbeath are toiling, isn't it?

It's your zero sum game, 

 I am not saying the Pyramid is a bad idea. It just doesn't work nearly as well in a sparsely populated country like much of Scotland, outside of the central belt.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Brummo

[KeltyDaft]

7 minutes ago, Brummo said:

Great news. Fabulous that the parallel universe that is junior football is being dismantled, isn't it?

Refreshing that big city teams are making it while dead wood goes to the wall, isn't  it?

Delighted to hear Brora are being pumped up with a fresh infusion of cash to challenge Fraserburgh isn't it?

Such good news for Fife football that Kelty are thriving while Cowdenbeath are toiling, isn't it?

It's your zero sum game, 

 I am not saying the Pyramid is a bad idea. It just doesn't work nearly as well in a sparsely populated country like much of Scotland, outside of the central belt.

Cowdenbeath have been circling around the drain hole of non league football for many years. I sympathise however the results on the pitch matter. They rely on a “big tie” game every couple of years to survive, how is that sustainable for any club? 

im failing to see any real train of thought in your ramblings, if affluent clubs can show sustainability and progress I'm all for it.

The Gretna - Kelty comparison is becoming old and stale, change the record

[Jack Reed]

13 minutes ago, Brummo said:

Great news. Fabulous that the parallel universe that is junior football is being dismantled, isn't it?

Refreshing that big city teams are making it while dead wood goes to the wall, isn't  it?

Delighted to hear Brora are being pumped up with a fresh infusion of cash to challenge Fraserburgh: isn't it refreshing?

Such good news for Fife football that Kelty are thriving while Cowdenbeath are toiling, isn't it?

It's your zero sum game, 

 I am not saying the Pyramid is a bad idea. It just doesn't work nearly as well in a sparsely populated country like much of Scotland, outside of the central belt.

Totally agree, it's hard to judge teams when not starting off the same playing fields, 

[Brummo]

1 minute ago, KeltyDaft said:

Cowdenbeath have been circling around the drain hole of non league football for many years. I sympathise however the results on the pitch matter. They rely on a “big tie” game every couple of years to survive, how is that sustainable for any club? 

im failing to see any real train of thought in your ramblings, if affluent clubs can show sustainability and progress I'm all for it.

The Gretna - Kelty comparison is becoming old and stale, change the record

Shall I simply it for you then?
I am not impressed with the lack of progress that the pyramid system has so far brought about. 

I was not comparing Kelty to Gretna. I don't know anything about Kelty, other than the fact that they are from a small town, close to Cowdenbeath. 

For all I know Kelty might be a fantastic club that does amazing things in the local community as well as having successful teams on the park at different levels - like Montrose FC.

 

[Scorge]

16 hours ago, Brummo said:

Way too much deference being shown to new money wannabes i.m.o.

 

There's not much else you can do if you're confronted with the type of team Kelty turn up with - easily L1 with some players who could still do a job in the championship. I don't ever see them imploding like Gretna (the ne plus ultra of one man egotistical recklessness), but if the backer's money runs down and their more expensive signings all bolt at the end of their (comparitively) big money deals, they will just find their level and drop back down the slope if it comes to it. Money is transient - some clubs will have more of it at various points, but thankfully since the post-SPL administration years of 2007-12 with several clubs going pop, most of them have been infinitely more sensible in the finance department within the boardroom.

[leomessi1984]

On 06/12/2021 at 17:33, Brummo said:

Shall I simply it for you then?
I am not impressed with the lack of progress that the pyramid system has so far brought about. 

I was not comparing Kelty to Gretna. I don't know anything about Kelty, other than the fact that they are from a small town, close to Cowdenbeath. 

For all I know Kelty might be a fantastic club that does amazing things in the local community as well as having successful teams on the park at different levels - like Montrose FC.

 

Good post. Kelty will need to stabilise at some point and Montrose is probably a good comparison. The pyramid needs acceleration but at least the door is open.

[Broken Algorithms]

SP article in the courier today.
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/2784072/stewart-petrie-on-5-years-at-montrose-still-striving-for-improvement-greatest-memory-and-why-jobs-elsewhere-have-never-been-considered/
Unfortunately I don't subscribe and I've already hit my quota of free articles so I've no idea what it says. I'm sure it's pretty good though.

You can use incognito mode in your browser to get past any article limit quotas.

[Angus of the Mo]

On 06/12/2021 at 17:19, KeltyDaft said:

Cowdenbeath have been circling around the drain hole of non league football for many years. I sympathise however the results on the pitch matter. They rely on a “big tie” game every couple of years to survive, how is that sustainable for any club? 

im failing to see any real train of thought in your ramblings, if affluent clubs can show sustainability and progress I'm all for it.

The Gretna - Kelty comparison is becoming old and stale, change the record

Would I be right in saying Kelty and Cowdenbeath are right next to each other and are both small towns of around 6000 people?

Its a shame Cowdenbeath are circling the drain hole, but often that's down to the blazers in the board room as well as cash and how they handle it, and obviously Kelty are in a far different place from them.

Probably every club in Scottish football has its roller coaster journey. I've seen links park with large crowds every 2nd Saturday and periods of being crap, even embarrassing, and struggling to get 200 fans. Things have changed for the MO, and I have respect for any club that is managed properly as a business and gets involved in their community.

It was sad to see the demise of a club like Brechin, but it punched above its weight for more than 20 years, obviously things had gone badly wrong for them. The last time I watched the MO play at the Glebe, we easy brought 4 times the fans they had

Competition and good management. Kelty have earned the place they are at, not sure if this has impacted on Cowdenbeath at all?

Just my 10p worth

[Gogs Grog]

I know it's been said before but what a team this is. Everyone playing their part when called upon and another 3 points.
Third highest scorers and best defence in the division. I need to pinch myself at times with the turnaround.
Hope everyone has a safe journey back up the road.

[Angus of the Mo]

On 11/12/2021 at 17:36, Gogs Grog said:

I know it's been said before but what a team this is. Everyone playing their part when called upon and another 3 points.
Third highest scorers and best defence in the division. I need to pinch myself at times with the turnaround.
Hope everyone has a safe journey back up the road.
 

The stats speak for themselves.

The future is positive.

Dick Campbell for the Smokies, Stewart Petrie for the Mo.

Its a great time for half of the Angus clubs

[Brummo]

13 hours ago, Angus of the Mo said:

The stats speak for themselves.

The future is positive.

Dick Campbell for the Smokies, Stewart Petrie for the Mo.

Its a great time for half of the Angus clubs

I have said this before but when Stewart Petrie came to the Mo and Dick Campbell went to Arbroath, I thought we had the better manager, as "the bunnet" was old school, thinking he would be limited like Paul Hegarty had been in getting the best out of players, particularly younger ones, who didn't respond well to Heggy's Jim McLean style management.

He certainly seems to have thrived at Arbroath. I do wonder however if an ingredient of the success Arbroath are enjoying is partly a consequence of Dick Campbell's own financial investment. As emerged in the "Sacked in the morning" podcast, he has three businesses, which seem to be successful, along with his football management. While not taking away from his achievements, I think Arbroath's progress in the Championship, while Montrose are still some way off that pace, is clearly down to more than just Campbell's astute management.

I haven't paid much attention to Arbroath but Dick Campbell seems pretty cocksure about having the best squad of part-time players available. He claims that no other part-time players in Scotland would be good enough to make his team. If that is the case I am pretty sure it isn't just down to their Dick's personality and coaching skills.

Arbroath fans seem to think Petrie is a racing certainty to take over at Castle Gayskull, when the bunnet retires. If that happens without Petrie and Campbell having teams competing against each other in the Championship, I will be sorely disappointed. I like to think that with equivalent budgets, Petrie's team would more than hold their own against Campbell's. The idea that we are just a feeder team for Arbroath or only good enough for their cast-offs is something no Mo fan could stomach, surely?

Is Campbell's bubble going to pop any time soon? Is his squad ageing well or on the verge of past it? What is the secret of Dick's success? Is their manager better, or just more smug and annoying?

.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Brummo
Haverin'

[Angus of the Mo]

9 hours ago, Brummo said:

I have said this before but when Stewart Petrie came to the Mo and Dick Campbell went to Arbroath, I thought we had the better manager, as "the bunnet" was old school, thinking he would be limited like Paul Hegarty had been in getting the best out of players, particularly younger ones, who didn't respond well to Heggy's Jim McLean style management.

He certainly seems to have thrived at Arbroath. I do wonder however if an ingredient of the success Arbroath are enjoying is partly a consequence of Dick Campbell's own financial investment. As emerged in the "Sacked in the morning" podcast, he has three businesses, which seem to be successful, along with his football management. While not taking away from his achievements, I think Arbroath's progress in the Championship, while Montrose are still some way off that pace, is clearly down to more than just Campbell's astute management.

I haven't paid much attention to Arbroath but Dick Campbell seems pretty cocksure about having the best squad of part-time players available. He claims that no other part-time players in Scotland would be good enough to make his team. If that is the case I am pretty sure it isn't just down to their Dick's personality and coaching skills.

Arbroath fans seem to think Petrie is a racing certainty to take over at Castle Gayskull, when the bunnet retires. If that happens without Petrie and Campbell having teams competing against each other in the Championship, I will be sorely disappointed. I like to think that with equivalent budgets, Petrie's team would more than hold their own against Campbell's. The idea that we are just a feeder team for Arbroath or only good enough for their cast-offs is something no Mo fan could stomach, surely?

Is Campbell's bubble going to pop any time soon? Is his squad ageing well or on the verge of past it? What is the secret of Dick's success? Is their manager better, or just more smug and annoying?

.

Doesnt matter which manager any club has as long as we are happy with where we are and what we've got, and like most Mo fans, I'm happy with everything about the club. We are respected, not big shots rising through the leagues quickly, but admired.

This contentment has been proved in the fans surveys, where Montrose fans are the happiest in Scottish professional football. I wouldnt like to be part of a club that are desperate, no offence meant, but Kelty, QP and Falkirk come to mind, the first two for the same reasons as regards financial investment, Falkirk are a big club that just shouldnt be where they are now and have to overcome their issues.

Arbroath arent looking at us for the future, they are right in the mix of the bigger time.

Dick Campbell is a huge success, and greatly revered, I wouldnt be surprised if the Smokies raise a statue of him in Arbroath, right next to Robert the Bruce 

I think Ross and Yano have been great for the Mo, and the Campbell dynasty of Angus continues. If the 2 clubs feed off each other that's fine by me. 

[1320Lichtie]

16 hours ago, Brummo said:

I have said this before but when Stewart Petrie came to the Mo and Dick Campbell went to Arbroath, I thought we had the better manager, as "the bunnet" was old school, thinking he would be limited like Paul Hegarty had been in getting the best out of players, particularly younger ones, who didn't respond well to Heggy's Jim McLean style management.

He certainly seems to have thrived at Arbroath. I do wonder however if an ingredient of the success Arbroath are enjoying is partly a consequence of Dick Campbell's own financial investment. As emerged in the "Sacked in the morning" podcast, he has three businesses, which seem to be successful, along with his football management. While not taking away from his achievements, I think Arbroath's progress in the Championship, while Montrose are still some way off that pace, is clearly down to more than just Campbell's astute management.

I haven't paid much attention to Arbroath but Dick Campbell seems pretty cocksure about having the best squad of part-time players available. He claims that no other part-time players in Scotland would be good enough to make his team. If that is the case I am pretty sure it isn't just down to their Dick's personality and coaching skills.

Arbroath fans seem to think Petrie is a racing certainty to take over at Castle Gayskull, when the bunnet retires. If that happens without Petrie and Campbell having teams competing against each other in the Championship, I will be sorely disappointed. I like to think that with equivalent budgets, Petrie's team would more than hold their own against Campbell's. The idea that we are just a feeder team for Arbroath or only good enough for their cast-offs is something no Mo fan could stomach, surely?

Is Campbell's bubble going to pop any time soon? Is his squad ageing well or on the verge of past it? What is the secret of Dick's success? Is their manager better, or just more smug and annoying?

.

Are you taking the piss? Have you seen the growth of the club? The crowds? The season tickets sold? The backing and sponsorship we are now bringing in? The investments made into extending hospitality for extra revenue? FT appointment of a commercial director? The prize money we get for our league position in comparison to yours? 
 

It’s absolutely miles ahead DC isn’t putting his own financial investment in ffs. 
 

The good times can’t last forever but what we’ve put in place off the park should be enough to stabilise is as a lower championship / top half of L1 team. Our squad has both experience and youth with only Swankie and Linn close to calling it a day. DC success is the fact he’s more than likely a better manager at a bigger club with more potential in comparison to Petrie. It’s that simple

Edited December 14, 2021 by 1320Lichtie

[Brummo]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Are you taking the piss? Have you seen the growth of the club? The crowds? The season tickets sold? The backing and sponsorship we are now bringing in? The investments made into extending hospitality for extra revenue? FT appointment of a commercial director? The prize money we get for our league position in comparison to yours? 
 

It’s absolutely miles ahead DC isn’t putting his own financial investment in ffs. 
 

The good times can’t last forever but what we’ve put in place off the park should be enough to stabilise is as a lower championship / top of L1 team. Our squad has both experience and youth with only Swankie and Linn close to calling it a day. DC success is the fact he’s more than likely a better manager at a bigger club with more potential in comparison to Petrie. It’s that simple

Er, no it isn't that simple and if you honestly expect any Mo fan to agree with you, you have another think coming.

Thanks for clarifying the situation, even if it is very obviously from the perspective of your maroon-tinted glasses. As I said I look forward to the Mo competing successfully with Arbroath in the league again one day in the not too distant future, hopefully in the Championship, if you're not out of reach in the top tier by the time we get there.

[1320Lichtie]

2 hours ago, Brummo said:

Er, no it isn't that simple and if you honestly expect any Mo fan to agree with you, you have another think coming.

Thanks for clarifying the situation, even if it is very obviously from the perspective of your maroon-tinted glasses. As I said I look forward to the Mo competing successfully with Arbroath in the league again one day in the not too distant future, hopefully in the Championship, if you're not out of reach in the top tier by the time we get there.

It really is though. Just looking at it. Your average crowd this season is 591. 591 on average paying money into your club every week. We are nearly at 1000 season ticket holders. So 1000 season ticket holders with an average crowd of 1495, that’s a whole lot of extra money going into our football club every single week. Our hospitality is usually sold out and is about half the size of your average crowd. That’s a lot of money.
 

League position wise I’m sure the winner of L1 gets 125k. 4th place in L1 down to about 80k. I’m pretty sure we got about £350k off of our league position last season. Also £500k Covid money. Like I said in the last post too there’s a FT commercial director at Gayfield now too, club is bringing in a lot of cash especially for a PT team.
 

It’s nothing to do with DC own backing or money going into the club, he’s mentioned the board back him and don’t mind spending because he’s made the money for them and that’s true, the on field success has allowed all the off field stuff to happen. The growth of the club has mainly been down to DC, and obviously the board too but they’ve been able to because of what he’s done and the questions you asked are all pretty straightforward ones.
 

Petrie is clearly a great manager and good guy but DC still the top man in PT football management and he’s at a place that is allowing him to fulfil his potential. 
 

eta- over 1000 season ticket holders just there today 

Edited December 14, 2021 by 1320Lichtie

[Brummo]

2 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said:

It really is though. Just looking at it. Your average crowd this season is 591. 591 on average paying money into your club every week. We are nearly at 1000 season ticket holders. So 1000 season ticket holders with an average crowd of 1495, that’s a whole lot of extra money going into our football club every single week. Our hospitality is usually sold out and is about half the size of your average crowd. That’s a lot of money.
 

League position wise I’m sure the winner of L1 gets 125k. 4th place in L1 down to about 80k. I’m pretty sure we got about £350k off of our league position last season. Also £500k Covid money. Like I said in the last post too there’s a FT commercial director at Gayfield now too, club is bringing in a lot of cash especially for a PT team.
 

It’s nothing to do with DC own backing or money going into the club, he’s mentioned the board back him and don’t mind spending because he’s made the money for them and that’s true, the on field success has allowed all the off field stuff to happen. The growth of the club has mainly been down to DC, and obviously the board too but they’ve been able to because of what he’s done and the questions you asked are all pretty straightforward ones.
 

Petrie is clearly a great manager and good guy but DC still the top man in PT football management and he’s at a place that is allowing him to fulfil his potential. 
 

eta- over 1000 season ticket holders just there today 

Points well made but at the risk of allowing you to gloat even more, how did DC get Arbroath in this enviable position in the first place? I think his ability to sign players back in L2 and L1 was not entirely down to his management skills. I could be wrong but I would be very surprised if he hadn't invested any of his own cash.

DC is more experienced than Petrie, I will concede that but time will tell if he is better overall.

He has done really well at Arbroath: probably at his best in the twilight of a long career with its share of ups and downs.

Petrie just gets better and better. There's more to come from this era at Montrose.

I can't say the same for Arbroath because I don't support them but as neighbours and rivals, as long as Montrose are winning and growing stronger, I am happy for Arbroath to enjoy their seasons in the sun.

[A Username With Mo In It]

Yes they're our rivals but credit where credit's due, I don't think Dick Campbells success is down to money being thrown at him by the club or anyone else. I mean his record in part-time management at Arbroath, Brechin and at a lesser extent Forfar speaks for itself. Who'd have thought a decade ago that they would now be sitting 3 points from the top of the championship?

Also have to say Arbroath's growth in recent years has also been impressive and 1000 season ticket holders is indeed some achievement when you think how low attendances dropped during lean years in the past.

On a side note, our club has done really well in recent years with the plastic pitch generating income and forging links with the community. Often wondered if Arbroath are missing a trick here and would they ever consider it in the future?

[1320Lichtie]

43 minutes ago, Brummo said:

Points well made but at the risk of allowing you to gloat even more, how did DC get Arbroath in this enviable position in the first place? I think his ability to sign players back in L2 and L1 was not entirely down to his management skills. I could be wrong but I would be very surprised if he hadn't invested any of his own cash.

DC is more experienced than Petrie, I will concede that but time will tell if he is better overall.

He has done really well at Arbroath: probably at his best in the twilight of a long career with its share of ups and downs.

Petrie just gets better and better. There's more to come from this era at Montrose.

I can't say the same for Arbroath because I don't support them but as neighbours and rivals, as long as Montrose are winning and growing stronger, I am happy for Arbroath to enjoy their seasons in the sun.

If you understood anything about us and how we progressed from season to season you’d understand it clear as day. Plus we’ve always been up there with the best part time supported clubs even when we were shite. Average when we finished 9th in L2 was still about 750. There was always the potential there. Our team in L2 looking back at it in comparison to the team now was actually very poor. There’s been a growth year on year. Even the team that won L1 would get a hiding off the team we have at the moment. It’s been a steady build keeping the correct players and allowing them to grow with the club. 
 

It’s also not gloating it’s just facts. Say an extra 900 people coming in through the gates spending money over 18 league games. That’s 16,200 people spending x amount. That’s a huge amount of money. And the league prize money also is much larger currently. It’s nothing to do with DC putting money into the club it’s ridiculous to suggest that 

Edited December 14, 2021 by 1320Lichtie

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, A Username With Mo In It said:

Yes they're our rivals but credit where credit's due, I don't think Dick Campbells success is down to money being thrown at him by the club or anyone else. I mean his record in part-time management at Arbroath, Brechin and at a lesser extent Forfar speaks for itself. Who'd have thought a decade ago that they would now be sitting 3 points from the top of the championship?

Also have to say Arbroath's growth in recent years has also been impressive and 1000 season ticket holders is indeed some achievement when you think how low attendances dropped during lean years in the past.

On a side note, our club has done really well in recent years with the plastic pitch generating income and forging links with the community. Often wondered if Arbroath are missing a trick here and would they ever consider it in the future?

Plastic pitch is a no go I’ve been told due to location and drainage issues