Can the Old firm stranglehold be broken?

[TheScarf]

12 hours ago, baillieinleeds said:

Of course they can be caught, other teams need to get that fear factor out of their heads. Look at Celtic and Rangers in Europe, they get raped without Vaseline by teams you can barely pronounce. Wee clubs in Europe are desperate to get this vile lot in  the CL and know they have a chance of getting through. The Irish team struggled against Kilmarnock was the perfect example. 

Ah right, they’re just not trying hard enough. Hibs, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and Motherwell can overcome Celtic and Rangers having far more money and better players, by trying harder.

[baillieinleeds]

2 hours ago, The Moonster said:

This is like saying we'll beat terrorism with thoughts and prayers.

So what you’re saying is teams in the Premiership shouldn’t even bother trying to compete with CELGERS, and just let them roll over everybody. That’s the defeatist attitude that makes Scotland a laughing stock the world over. Just because they have money and better players doesn’t mean they’re a good team. Kilmarnock clearly didn’t get the memo to lie down to the greatness of Celtic. It’s about attitude. If you get beat, Atleast they gave it a go. Aberdeen clearly the best of the rest turn to jelly when they play the “old” firm. Why because they lack the mental attitude to compete. 

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, baillieinleeds said:

So what you’re saying is teams in the Premiership shouldn’t even bother trying to compete with CELGERS, and just let them roll over everybody. That’s the defeatist attitude that makes Scotland a laughing stock the world over. Just because they have money and better players doesn’t mean they’re a good team. Kilmarnock clearly didn’t get the memo to lie down to the greatness of Celtic. It’s about attitude. If you get beat, Atleast they gave it a go. Aberdeen clearly the best of the rest turn to jelly when they play the “old” firm. Why because they lack the mental attitude to compete. 

No, I haven't said that at all. You're asserting that the reason Celtic and Rangers win the top division every year is because the other clubs are scared of beating them and don't try hard enough. That is undeniable bollocks. 

If it was solely down to attitude, why would any team waste money on paying full time players? They could just sign cheap part time ones and make them try really hard.

[TheScarf]

Plus, no one outside Scotland and Belfast gives a fuck about Scottish football. It certainly isn’t a ‘laughing stock around the world’.

[MadFerret]

It would be nice if one of us (Dundee United) could break them, but when you consider their fan bases compared to the rest of us, it is highly unlikely to happen. The sheer numbers create the wealth we'll never have. Unless we get some crazy Arab, Arab, who invests billions, we will always be aiming for third place. 

[Tulloch Gorum]

On 11/08/2020 at 13:36, TheScarf said:

Plus, no one outside Scotland and Belfast gives a f**k about Scottish football. It certainly isn’t a ‘laughing stock around the world’.

Exactly.  You see so much insecurity or anger about people in other countries (which = England, invariably) laughing at Scottish football.  Almost nobody outside of Scotland cares, and for those who do... why should we care about that?  People in Finland think about Scottish football exactly as often as we think about Finnish football, or Romanian football, or Greek football.  Personally I cba with English football, likewise with what their fans and pundits think of our game.  I'd be tempted to say thinking otherwise is just wallowing in inferiority, but that's probably not fair.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Tulloch Gorum

[G51]

On 11/08/2020 at 13:36, TheScarf said:

Plus, no one outside Scotland and Belfast gives a f**k about Scottish football. It certainly isn’t a ‘laughing stock around the world’.

I know a couple of lads from Newry who are bang into it.

But you're right ultimately, no one outside of Scotland and NI cares. England, Wales and the Republic are all full of folk who watch the EPL.

[AmericanFan]

On 11/08/2020 at 07:36, TheScarf said:

Plus, no one outside Scotland and Belfast gives a f**k about Scottish football. It certainly isn’t a ‘laughing stock around the world’.

Ahem...

haha. 

[AmericanFan]

On 11/08/2020 at 05:17, TheScarf said:

Ah right, they’re just not trying hard enough. Hibs, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and Motherwell can overcome Celtic and Rangers having far more money and better players, by trying harder.

haha. This made me laugh. Cheers to you, good sir.

[MrWorldwideJr]

On 11/08/2020 at 13:28, baillieinleeds said:

So what you’re saying is teams in the Premiership shouldn’t even bother trying to compete with CELGERS, and just let them roll over everybody. That’s the defeatist attitude that makes Scotland a laughing stock the world over. Just because they have money and better players doesn’t mean they’re a good team. Kilmarnock clearly didn’t get the memo to lie down to the greatness of Celtic. It’s about attitude. If you get beat, Atleast they gave it a go. Aberdeen clearly the best of the rest turn to jelly when they play the “old” firm. Why because they lack the mental attitude to compete. 

There's  a fairly obvious difference between getting a result against Celtic or Rangers in one off matches (as Kilmarnock for example do pretty regularly so no idea why you're acting as if never happens) and actually being able to compete with them for consistency across a league season. In the 2015/16 season, probably our best chance to win the league, Aberdeen beat Celtic twice at Pittodrie and lost to them twice at Celtic Park. So those four matches cancelled each other out in terms of the league table, it wasn't a failure to beat Celtic which cost us the title. We still finished 15 points behind Celtic because we couldn't match their consistency across a season against all the other teams. It had nothing to do with a 'defeatist attitude' or whatever other 'pashun' based nonsense you want to put it down to and everything to do with the fact that a bigger, better, more expensively assembled squad will in general be less prone to dropping points across a whole season even if your team can match them in individual matches. Its genuinely wild to me that people like you seem to think the only reason Celtic and Rangers are better than everyone else is that they have a better attitude. Its an absolutely incredible level of denial of basic facts.

[craigkillie]

I'm also not sure why you think Aberdeen are "clearly the best of the rest" when they haven't finished as the best of the rest in either of the last two seasons.

[crispy]

The OF also have a habit of pinching players that can harm them so the competition is pruned back regularly. 

[wastecoatwilly]

On 11/08/2020 at 15:37, MadFerret said:

we will always be aiming for third place. 

The scramble for third or the inconsistent third force every year? 

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

On 09/08/2020 at 15:31, TheScarf said:

Not whilst they play to the lowest common denominator of Scotland.  They thrive on bigotry, which allows them to gain more followers, hence all their games are shown on TV, so they get most of the TV money, which allows them to sign better players, which makes them finish first and second, which gets them more prize money, and European money.

it's an endless cycle which looks almost impossible to break.  They'll always have gargantuan levels of income streams compared to the 10 other teams in the league at any point in time.

Plus, if they did ever feel threatened or challenged, they'd just dangle the money carrot at the club who was challenging, and sign their 2/3 best players to sit in the stand for them every Saturday.

What does that say about the great Scottish public?

[Jacksgranda]

 

On 09/08/2020 at 15:33, craigkillie said:

On 09/08/2020 at 15:32, TheScarf said:

Aberdeen was in 2014.

Sorry, you're right. Had it in my head as 2011 for some reason. Replace with Hearts.

No thanks.

[Jacksgranda]

On 09/08/2020 at 22:04, Sergeant Wilson said:

Winning the Scottish League won't cut much ice with your oligarch/Arabian royal family pals though. You might persuade one to buy up some golf courses to show off, but telling them you own Tynecastle and all its contents won't get them excited.

Would winning the Great War not impress them?

[Jacksgranda]

On 10/08/2020 at 11:11, Tribal Trash said:

Phew!  This forum is VERY busy.  I'm old enough to remember the 80's when Aberdeen and Dundee United could come to Glasgow and hammer the old firm emphatically. It was good for the game.  It must be tough to support either of these teams now, knowing that it's very likely that these glory days are unlikely to return barring major sugar daddy investment. That's bound to affect interest in supporting these clubs.  Knowing that, when a season starts, your team has very little chance of winning the SPL or a trophy isn't exactly a healthy state of affairs.

We don't produce great footballers any more since they are being stifled. Capping transfers, restrictions on the amount of foreign players a team can play, and guidelines to promote academy players through the ranks would be a game changer.  Now potential home grown talent would encouraged to make a breakthrough.  Potential fans would then be encouraged to come out and support their local teams knowing that they have a fighting chance to win something.  Doing a Leicester could become a distinct possibility.

I'm old enough to remember the 60's.

Exactly this - still didn't stop me and my mates going. (Granted we were young and foolish...)

[Jacksgranda]

On 11/08/2020 at 11:17, TheScarf said:

Ah right, they’re just not trying hard enough. Hibs, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and Motherwell can overcome Celtic and Rangers having far more money and better players, by trying harder.

And getting more football knowledge. Simple, really.

[Trackdaybob]

The biggest problem is 'the rest' just spend the whole season taking points off each other thus negating any 'one off' type results against either of the filth. This is then multiplied by the fact they play more than twice a season. 

And so it continues. 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Trackdaybob
To add a wee bit more