Can the Old firm stranglehold be broken?

[HibsFan]

I think at the start of each season, us “diddy” clubs should meet up behind closed doors and have a wee tombola, whichever team comes out of the hat is the team we all agree to lie down to in the upcoming season.

That would be 90 guaranteed points right there for the non-OF challenger, they’d only have to not completely bottle it against them to win the title. If you do win it, you’re not allowed to be in next season’s tombola, rinse and repeat. Easy.

[DukDukGoose]

59 minutes ago, gannonball said:

‘Operating’ budget is a bit missleading. We have a far bigger fan base and when you actually get to european groups the hoops UEFA make you jump through is  costly (worth it though obviously). Under Deila our wage bill was about 30 million at one point and I think Aberdeens was about 6/7 million. A significant gap but not quite the 100-150 million of Leicester or Atletico Madrid.

 

I think the £100 - £150m is buying you a player closer to the elite teams than the £6-7m is up here in relevant terms.

The better Leicester players went on to win the league at other teams or stayed at Leicester and trebled their wage.

[Tribal Trash]

Phew!  This forum is VERY busy.  I'm old enough to remember the 80's when Aberdeen and Dundee United could come to Glasgow and hammer the old firm emphatically. It was good for the game.  It must be tough to support either of these teams now, knowing that it's very likely that these glory days are unlikely to return barring major sugar daddy investment. That's bound to affect interest in supporting these clubs.  Knowing that, when a season starts, your team has very little chance of winning the SPL or a trophy isn't exactly a healthy state of affairs.

We don't produce great footballers any more since they are being stifled. Capping transfers, restrictions on the amount of foreign players a team can play, and guidelines to promote academy players through the ranks would be a game changer.  Now potential home grown talent would encouraged to make a breakthrough.  Potential fans would then be encouraged to come out and support their local teams knowing that they have a fighting chance to win something.  Doing a Leicester could become a distinct possibility.

[Stellaboz]

1 hour ago, Tynierose said:

Valdas Ivanauskas was the boy.  It was a season that starred off fantasically but unfortunately the Romanov ego wrecked any title bid.  If he had left well enough alone and let Burley get on with it then who knows.  His appointment of Rix was a bizarre decision too.

At one point he signed some Brazilian midfielder without Burley knowing and insisted he played, he was rotten.

Interesting times.

 

A massive shame what happened, it would have been tremendous to see anyone but Celtic or Rangers win the league. 

[Stellaboz]

1 hour ago, Tynierose said:

Valdas Ivanauskas was the boy.  It was a season that starred off fantasically but unfortunately the Romanov ego wrecked any title bid.  If he had left well enough alone and let Burley get on with it then who knows.  His appointment of Rix was a bizarre decision too.

At one point he signed some Brazilian midfielder without Burley knowing and insisted he played, he was rotten.

Interesting times.

 

A massive shame what happened, it would have been tremendous to see anyone but Celtic or Rangers win the league. 

[gannonball]

35 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

I think the £100 - £150m is buying you a player closer to the elite teams than the £6-7m is up here in relevant terms.

The better Leicester players went on to win the league at other teams or stayed at Leicester and trebled their wage.

100-150 million was the gap not their budget at the time. At the time I think Leicester's wage budge was about 40 odd million if I recall correctly. They were 5000/1 at the start of the season when they won the league Aberdeen would barely have been double figures initially.

Edited August 10, 2020 by gannonball

[DukDukGoose]

27 minutes ago, gannonball said:

100-150 million was the gap not their budget at the time. At the time I think Leicester's wage budge was about 40 odd million if I recall correctly. They were 5000/1 at the start of the season when they won the league Aberdeen would barely have been double figures initially.

The gap is not that bad when you consider a lot of those players are on astrononical figures along with their reserves etc.

Leciester had some quality players and a tactical style to suit. They were signing great foreign talent on £40-£50k per week. Can only imagine what Kante and Mahrez went on to earn.

[gannonball]

25 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

The gap is not that bad when you consider a lot of those players are on astrononical figures along with their reserves etc.

Leciester had some quality players and a tactical style to suit. They were signing great foreign talent on £40-£50k per week. Can only imagine what Kante and Mahrez went on to earn.

Yes they are now on astrinomical money but the likes of Mahrez and Kante wouldn’t have been initially. A decent scouting network has helped them massively. In terms of Scottish football It can be an expensive thing to implement and most managers wont want it as they would rather have a higher playing budget and would be unlikely to see the benefits once it reaps it rewards. However unearth one gem every few years like we do and it more than pays for itself and the duds you pick up as well. I appreciate its only financially viable for a Handful of clubs out with the OF* and not in the present climate either.

Edited August 10, 2020 by gannonball

[TheScarf]

IMO, what Leicester did was 10 times more likely to happen than someone other than Celtic or Rangers winning the league here. 

There’s just too much financial gulf and number of supporters for the pair of them.

[DukDukGoose]

12 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Yes they are now on astrinomical money but the likes of Mahrez and Kante wouldn’t have been initially. A decent scouting network has helped them massively. In terms of Scottish football It can be an expensive thing to implement and most managers wont want it as they would rather have a higher playing budget and would be unlikely to see the benefits once it reaps it rewards. However unearth one gem every few years like we do and it more than pays for itself and the duds you pick up as well. I appreciate its only financially viable for a Handful of clubs out with the OF* and not in the present climate either.

I mean you've said it yourself. Leicester had a more extensive scouting network and that costs money. Leicester lost both of their top scouts either during or after that season had finished. One to Everton and one to Arsenal.

For every Wanyama you have Kouassi. The rest of us are doing the same but with free transfers. For every Shay Logan there's a Ryan McLaughlin. For every Scott Allan there is a Jamie Insall etc.

3 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

IMO, what Leicester did was 10 times more likely to happen than someone other than Celtic or Rangers winning the league here. 

There’s just too much financial gulf and number of supporters for the pair of them.

Yeah. Let's not forget the prize money on offer down there is obscene. Even for finishing 17th.

[Lebowski]

You’re right they’ve been trying to leave for years. They haven’t - and won’t - for the simple reason that no one else wants them.

It’s been what 35 years since a non old firm team won the league. Don’t really see how it won’t be at least another 35 years before it happens again.

The golden chance to break the duopoly was when Rangers went bust and Celtic had that joker Delia in charge. They were hopeless those couple of seasons and had of the other top half teams had a decent team and manager they could have won it. They didn’t though and in the end they didn’t even get close so here we still are.

Would be great if some random team could do a Leicester but it’s just never even nearly happened up here before. A financially doped up Hearts team had a run it for a few months about 15 years ago but even then they fell away long before the end.

Kindae agree, but Hearts actually came pretty close in 1998. They gave up on the league to start resting players with a few games to go to get ready for the cup final. Celtic and Rangers dropped multiple points in the run in. Hearts finished 7 points back. They dropped 10 pts in their last 5 games iirc.

Both Celtic and Rangers drop less points now than they did then tbf. But that was just a good Hearts side who were by no means great. As demonstrated by them ending up in relegation bother the following season.

[gannonball]

12 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

IMO, what Leicester did was 10 times more likely to happen than someone other than Celtic or Rangers winning the league here. 

There’s just too much financial gulf and number of supporters for the pair of them.

The bookies odds suggested the opposite of what you are claiming

Edited August 10, 2020 by gannonball

[TheScarf]

12 minutes ago, gannonball said:

The bookies odds suggested the opposite of what you are claiming

Im correct though aren’t I? The bookies got it completely incorrect.

[gannonball]

26 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Im correct though aren’t I? The bookies got it completely incorrect.

You put a 5000/1 bet on Leicester to win?
Are you seriously claiming the year Leicester won you would have put money on them winning the league instead of Aberdeen winning the Scottish Premiership if offered the same odds?

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by gannonball

[Crawford Bridge]

2 hours ago, Tribal Trash said:

Knowing that, when a season starts, your team has very little chance of winning the SPL

I would say there's zero chance of winning a competition that hasn't existed for 7 years.

[LIVIFOREVER]

The SPL & Rangers, two things that stopped existing but keep getting talked about as if they still do.

 

Another one is folk referring to the SPFL as if it's the top flight Premiership, not getting that all four leagues are  part of the SPFL.

[Mikeymm11]

One thing people are forgetting about is the new third European competition Uefa are introducing. If an Aberdeen/Hibs/Hearts/anyone can manage to get themselves into that competition & start to scrape together money & coefficient points, you could potentially begin to bridge the gap. Not to the level where you'd be on an equal footing with the OF, but to a level where you'd have much more money than the rest of the league & a fighters chance at causing an upset. 

I believe Killie at one point under Steve Clarke were level on points with Celtic over a 12 month period - If you can combine that level of consistency with good recruitment & the extra few million from qualifying for Europe (not enough to get near Rangers & Celtic, but enough to take you away from the rest of the league) it's doable. 

Rangers & Celtic have a hard time making it into the CL these days and instead have to settle for less money with the Europa. I would like to see teams like Aberdeen, Hearts & Hibs make a real go at this new third competition as it would be nice to have some other Scottish clubs in Europe again, and it would genuinely bring in enough money & attract enough players to see these clubs improve. They wouldn't have to sell their players at the first bid to an English Championship club, and would be in a unique position to offer these players European football. 

Under the right circumstances it's doable. A very long shot, but I think a well run Scottish club with ambition and some good runs in Europe over the next few years would get a lot closer than you might think. 

[Stellaboz]

You realise that this extra competition also gives nations around us and below us the same opportunity? 

[Mikeymm11]

13 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

You realise that this extra competition also gives nations around us and below us the same opportunity? 

So what's stopping a Scottish team from taking the opportunity? The Scottish coefficient is climbing year on year & will only give Scottish clubs a greater chance of qualifying for European competitions. We're currently sitting 14th in the coefficient table - I believe if we manage to climb to 12th, the team that wins the Scottish Cup or finishes 3rd will go directly into the final qualifying round for the Europa league & if they lose that they go into the group stages of the 3rd competition - you could potentially have group stage European football without having to win a game. 

Teams from smaller nations with a fraction of the budget of even Aberdeen have managed to qualify for Europe in recent years. This new third competition opens many doors for the Scottish clubs finishing between 3rd-5th, as does the climbing Scottish coefficient. In the near future you will very likely have Scottish clubs outwith the OF competing in group stages of European competitions again. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Mikeymm11

[Stellaboz]

This is the European equivalent of the Challenge Cup. I may be wrong but I don't believe the coefficient points will be made from this competition the same way as the Europa League and certainly not the CL.