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1 minute ago, Gaz said:

How is it an irrelevant point?

Keto is, by its very nature, high in fat. There are 9 calories in one gram of fat. It is incredibly easy for someone on keto, who isn't paying attention to their calorific intake, to eat more calories than their body needs.

You're introducing extra variables left, right and centre. Your original point was that doctors are prescribing keto to combat obesity. Keto on its own will do absolutely nothing for obesity unless there is a reduced calorific intake. If someone switches to keto and has exactly the same calorific balance as before they will not lose any weight whatsoever.

Your initial point was that IF and Keto were all about counting calories which isn’t telling the full story though. The entire purpose of the keto diet is for your body to use its stored fat as fuel so you lose weight that way and isn’t ALL about the calorie deficit. 
 

I do fasting regularly but still drink like an 18 year old most weekends which is why i felt the need to add variables into this equation as have never been into counting calories but have been in good shape for the last 2 years now. 

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17 minutes ago, Gaz said:

 

You've said it yourself though - you frequently spend 'hours' doing that.

McDonalds is more expensive than healthy food, yes. I don't think anyone's doubting that. But I personally know pupils and their parents who will eat McDonalds three or four times a week because doing so allows their parents to work an extra hour at work (and earn an extra hour's wage) that more than offsets the extra cost of the food. That's what the opportunity cost is all about.

Yes but i'm not getting mcdonalds because i'm lazy and would do something else if only i could be bothered. I'm getting Mcdonalds because of a preference. 

I'm sure some people get takeway th o save work but a lot of people get take away because they like eating takeaway food

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Guest bernardblack

I think a small percentage of the country actually plan their meals for the week ahead, thus resulting in fresh food going off and proving expensive.

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The other side of eating healthy is actually finding food/meals you like.

You see people eat a grilled chicken breast with veg for dinner and don't last more than a week and end up back on the takeaways.

A bit of trial and error with different meals and you will find yourself with a decent routine of healthy meals you like.

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Guest JTS98

The cooking part will depend a lot on your personal situation, but I've just made cooking part of my day instead of being a chore.

I cook while listening to podcasts and genuinely find it an enjoyable part of the day. It's like tricking your brain to enjoy exercise or studying or housework etc.

I appreciate that that's not so easy for people with kids and lots of mouths to feed and a busy house etc.

It's not all that hard to eat well. I don't really vary things too much. I just make sure I have home-cooked vegetables in every meal. It takes me about 15 minutes start to finish to make dinner. Probably a little longer if I'm having potatoes, which I do seldom. Doesn't seem that big a deal.

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4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The other side of eating healthy is actually finding food/meals you like.

You see people eat a grilled chicken breast with veg for dinner and don't last more than a week and end up back on the takeaways.

A bit of trial and error with different meals and you will find yourself with a decent routine of healthy meals you like.

This is why I think these 3 month challenges are a bad idea. I bet they have a very low completion rate and probably do more harm than good as they throw people right into the deep end and it’s too much of a transformation to make all at once. If you’ve been overweight for some amount of time and are serious about losing weight the information is out there and is freely available.
 There’s also no shortage of forums out there with people who would be willing to help you out as well. It should be gradual steps that start with lowering your intake of various food and drink, doing forms of exercise you enjoy and finding healthy foods that you enjoy eating. At the end of the day nobody wants to be a fat b*****d. 

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3 minutes ago, throbber said:

This is why I think these 3 month challenges are a bad idea. I bet they have a very low completion rate and probably do more harm than good as they throw people right into the deep end and it’s too much of a transformation to make all at once. If you’ve been overweight for some amount of time and are serious about losing weight the information is out there and is freely available.
 There’s also no shortage of forums out there with people who would be willing to help you out as well. It should be gradual steps that start with lowering your intake of various food and drink, doing forms of exercise you enjoy and finding healthy foods that you enjoy eating. At the end of the day nobody wants to be a fat b*****d. 

Agreed, it can sound like being a preachy c**t but 'going on a diet' isn't really a great approach.

Reduce/cut out ready meals, takeaways etc, cook more, take more notice of calories and start by just exercising more, even if it's walking.

The first 3/4 weeks are shite but once you get over the hump and the weight starts coming off you get exponentially better.

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I disagree with Monkman in that I do think eating healthily is expensive. One because it’s hard to find loose produce now, and you have to go down the route of buying bags of produce - if I have £5 then I am spending it on the 3 for £5 ready meals and not a bag of carrots, potatoes and a net of onions - that’s not a meal.


You can disagree all you like, but you’re wrong.
Also, every supermarket I’ve been in recently still sells loose veg. We’ve recently decided to cut down our meat intake, so when I’m home we’ll tend to eat less meat through the week or none at all. Now my other half is utterly hopeless in the kitchen, so I do all the cooking. This leads to me cooking more than what’s required and freezing the extra, for her to use when I’m away at work.

Recently, I’ve made various different meals such as sweet potato dahl, Mediterranean veg casserole, cauliflower and broccoli bake etc. They probably cost less than 50p a portion with the exception of a veg Thai red curry that maybe came in about £1 a portion at the most.

Now I’m not saying it’s as simple as this, but take your 3 ready meals for a fiver scenario.

To feed a family of 4.
500g of pasta - 50p
1 onion - 10p
1 pepper - 30p
Tin of chopped tomatoes - 20p
Bag of salad leaves 50p
Baguette for garlic bread - 50p

That feeds four people for around £2 and takes about 20 minutes, to cook up a pasta with a tomato based sauce, salad and garlic bread.



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1 hour ago, throbber said:

 The entire purpose of the keto diet is for your body to use its stored fat as fuel so you lose weight that way and isn’t ALL about the calorie deficit. 

Your body will only use the stored fat as fuel if you eat in a calorific deficit.  You also need to be careful as your body will burn muscle for energy in a calorific deficit as well.

I think we are talking at cross purposes a little bit here.  I agree with you that keto diets can be good for health and weight loss but it's because they can help create a calorific deficit.  As @Gaz said though, fat is very calorific and if people just start eating fatty food to excess is has it's own health risks, including weight gain.

Edited by ICTChris
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12 minutes ago, MONKMAN said:

 


You can disagree all you like, but you’re wrong.
Also, every supermarket I’ve been in recently still sells loose veg. We’ve recently decided to cut down our meat intake, so when I’m home we’ll tend to eat less meat through the week or none at all. Now my other half is utterly hopeless in the kitchen, so I do all the cooking. This leads to me cooking more than what’s required and freezing the extra, for her to use when I’m away at work.

Recently, I’ve made various different meals such as sweet potato dahl, Mediterranean veg casserole, cauliflower and broccoli bake etc. They probably cost less than 50p a portion with the exception of a veg Thai red curry that maybe came in about £1 a portion at the most.

Now I’m not saying it’s as simple as this, but take your 3 ready meals for a fiver scenario.

To feed a family of 4.
500g of pasta - 50p
1 onion - 10p
1 pepper - 30p
Tin of chopped tomatoes - 20p
Bag of salad leaves 50p
Baguette for garlic bread - 50p

That feeds four people for around £2 and takes about 20 minutes, to cook up a pasta with a tomato based sauce, salad and garlic bread.


 

 

Look at what you have written. Today I went shopping (granted it was Morrisons so not the cheapest) but an onion for 10p? Mine was £1.35 for a net of 3. Peppers were not loose. Salad leaves are £1 and my baguette was £1.

Also say you eat that for 4  meals, where is the nutrition? What variety of vitamins  and nutrients are coming from pasta and a baguette for 4 days? A few veg and tomato sauce doesn’t give you all the vitamins you need and pasta and bread are things we are meant to cut down on now because they make you overweight.

It’s cheap eating but it’s not healthy eating.

Edited by Jambomo
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7 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Look at what you have written. Today I went shopping (granted it was Morrisons so not the cheapest) but an onion for 10p? Mine was £1.35 for a net of 3. Peppers were not loose. Salad leaves are £1 and my baguette was £1.

Also say you eat that for 4  meals, where is the nutrition? What variety of vitamins  and nutrients are coming from pasta and a baguette for 4 days? A few veg and tomato sauce doesn’t give you all the vitamins you need and pasta and bread are things we are meant to cut down on now because they make you overweight.

It’s cheap eating but it’s not healthy eating.

You must have been in a shite supermarket if they weren't selling loose onions, which are often about 1/3 the price of packs of three. 

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5 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

You must have been in a shite supermarket if they weren't selling loose onions, which are often about 1/3 the price of packs of three. 

If my onions were loose, I'd be going to hospital and not the supermarket.

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Look at what you have written. Today I went shopping (granted it was Morrisons so not the cheapest) but an onion for 10p? Mine was £1.35 for a net of 3. Peppers were not loose. Salad leaves are £1 and my baguette was £1.
Also say you eat that for 4  meals, where is the nutrition? What variety of vitamins  and nutrients are coming from pasta and a baguette for 4 days? A few veg and tomato sauce doesn’t give you all the vitamins you need and pasta and bread are things we are meant to cut down on now because they make you overweight.
It’s cheap eating but it’s not healthy eating.


If you’re paying 40p for an onion, then I suggest you shop elsewhere if the cost is a concern. I regularly shopped in Morrisons for years, until I moved house recently, and loose veg was readily available.

Food’s all about moderation, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with eating pasta and salad for example one night, cut the garlic bread and you’ve got pasta and salad which is perfectly fine in moderation.

The following night, what about
Bag of sweet potatoes - £1
Bag of lentils - 50p
Onion - 10p (yes that’s how much a loose onion costs roughly)
Tin of chopped tomatoes 20p
Add some spices and you’ve got 5/6 portions of dahl for a couple of quid.

Also, an apple or banana is cheaper than a bar of chocolate or a packet of crisps but you ask a kid which they’d prefer.
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Just now, Miguel Sanchez said:

You must have been in a shite supermarket if they weren't selling loose onions, which are often about 1/3 the price of packs of three. 

They did have loose onions - I just needed 3 so bought them. No loose peppers (Maybe out of stock if we are being generous) but most stuff was in bags or packs. Still not 10p for one onion though as I have bought them before, but they are quite large ones.

it is a pretty shite supermarket as well tbf. 

It was only one of the points though - I’m not saying that nothing is available loose, only that many things aren’t. 

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7 minutes ago, MONKMAN said:

 


If you’re paying 40p for an onion, then I suggest you shop elsewhere if the cost is a concern. I regularly shopped in Morrisons for years, until I moved house recently, and loose veg was readily available.

Food’s all about moderation, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with eating pasta and salad for example one night, cut the garlic bread and you’ve got pasta and salad which is perfectly fine in moderation.

The following night, what about
Bag of sweet potatoes - £1
Bag of lentils - 50p
Onion - 10p (yes that’s how much a loose onion costs roughly)
Tin of chopped tomatoes 20p
Add some spices and you’ve got 5/6 portions of dahl for a couple of quid.

Also, an apple or banana is cheaper than a bar of chocolate or a packet of crisps but you ask a kid which they’d prefer.

 

The following night? You’ve spent the £5 budget on the pasta.

eta - spices? they def aren’t cheap either.  

You aren’t getting the point - this is why you go for the variety and speed of the 3 for £5 ready meals and not the same meal for a week option.

 

Also, you don’t buy fruit because it doesn’t fill you up and it doesn’t satisfy your hunger. A choice between and apple and bread roll, you have a roll or yes, even chocolate because a chocolate bar will make you feel less hungry - even if only for a short while. 

Edited by Jambomo
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The following night? You’ve spent the £5 budget on the pasta.
eta - spices? they def aren’t cheap either.  
You aren’t getting the point - this is why you go for the variety and speed of the 3 for £5 ready meals and not the same meal for a week option.
 
Also, you don’t buy fruit because it doesn’t fill you up and it doesn’t satisfy your hunger. A choice between and apple and bread roll, you have a roll or yes, even chocolate because a chocolate bar will make you feel less hungry - even if only for a short while. 

I’ve just given you two examples off the top of my head that would feed a family of 4 for 2 nights for less than a fiver in total. If the budget is £5 a night, then that allows for more spends the following night if you want, but watch this.

Chicken thighs £2
broccoli 50p
rice 50p
Spices cost less than a quid each and last for ages.
So again, we’ve mixed it up a bit tonight and fed a family of 4 for less than £5.

Now I’m not going to argue against the time factor, as that may play a large part in it. Education is also a factor, how many people just assume that eating healthy is expensive when in reality it’s not.
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9 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Shout out to the "Wonky" range as well btw. Cheaper only because some of the produce can look dodgy. Taste the same though and a great introduction especially for people on a budget.

I was going to ask who the fvuk came up with range for Throbber until I reread it.

 

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