Lowland League 2020/21 General Chat

[Graeme]

Edinburgh Uni pumped 9-0 at home by east kilbride today 

Absolute state of 'tier 5' in Scottish football when you've got Edinburgh uni, vale of leithen, dalbeattie star etc. a league up from Hurlford, Irvine, Tranent, Btoxburn and all the other decent ex junior sides.

3 relegation places from the lowland can't come soon enough, but they don't seem interested in speeding up the lowland's shift towards a standard that truly reflects tier 5 so that'll probably be no time soon.

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Graeme

[selfassemblyshire]

Edinburgh Uni pumped 9-0 at home by east kilbride today [emoji15]
Absolute state of 'tier 5' in Scottish football when you've got Edinburgh uni, vale of leithen, dalbeattie star etc. a league up from Hurlford, Irvine, Tranent, Btoxburn and all the other decent ex junior sides.
3 relegation places from the lowland can't come soon enough, but they don't seem interested in speeding up the lowland's shift towards a standard that truly reflects tier 5 so that'll probably be no time soon.
 

Before the mass influx from the juniors the quality wasnt there in tier 6 and only a handful of teams were licensed.

The teams joining knew what they were signing up for and it might take years to get in the right place.

I'm up for 2 relegation spots though, before anyone jumps on this post.

[Graeme]

3 minutes ago, selfassemblyshire said:

Before the mass influx from the juniors the quality wasnt there in tier 6 and only a handful of teams were licensed.

The teams joining knew what they were signing up for and it might take years to get in the right place.

I'm up for 2 relegation spots though, before anyone jumps on this post.

That's right, they knew what they were signing up for but it's better for Scottish football and the lowland to improve the strength in depth of the league. Nothing against edinburgh uni, vale of leithen etc. probably better for them too if they play at a level they're more competitive at. 

Seems crazy to only have 1 team being relegated from a 16/17 team league with 3 feeder leagues below.

[Burnieman]

Cant imagine it does the LL any favours in their quest for an auto promotion spot to the SPFL either if they limit relegations of clubs who are clearly out of their depth with much better below them.

[Graeme]

7 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Cant imagine it does the LL any favours in their quest for an auto promotion spot to the SPFL either if they limit relegations of clubs who are clearly out of their depth with much better below them.

Aye good point.

 

With the better ex juniors the lowland league would have a similar standard and crowd sizes to the current league 2, wouldn't be as much of a disaster for the teams coming down from the SPFL as well.

[Andy groundhopper]

Think clubs need to  evaluate where they are, no offence to any of them, but why continue in a league where you always finish in the bottom 5 or 6 with little threat of relegation ? Hopefully the LL will soon be a strong league, with every club able to compete on a good level AND be ambitious to progress.Apart from the spfl play offs with club 42 etc - every league winner should look to move upwards.

[FairWeatherFan]

24 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Cant imagine it does the LL any favours in their quest for an auto promotion spot to the SPFL either if they limit relegations of clubs who are clearly out of their depth with much better below them.

I doubt the SPFL clubs care. Its financial more than anything. Look at how Berwick scraped a profit but needed their parachute payment to do it. 

You've also got those that go Highland so its not like Lowland league goings on matter to them. 

The only thing likely to change the SPFL play-off are more Tier 5 champions getting promoted. Which is  why most LL clubs chasing promotion are loading up on players from above not below. 

[Deanburn Dave]

Bottom 2 in the Lowland League should be relegated every season IMO.

[FairWeatherFan]

15 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Bottom 2 in the Lowland League should be relegated every season IMO.

With the West of Scotland finally sorted, that'll probably be round the corner. 

[LongTimeLurker]

Hopefully the numbers tip soon on this issue and more of a junior superleague approach will be introduced on pro-rel to keep things fresh with plenty of mobility between tiers. Could be another few years though.

Problem is the bottom half of the LL right now know they will almost certainly follow the Preston Athletic, Hawick RA and Whitehill Welfare trajectory and never get close to the LL again so will cling desperately to tier 5 status as long as they can.

Attitudes will only shift when there are enough clubs that want to make sure that if they have a bad season and get relegated that it's easy for them to quickly bounce back.

[Burnieman]

24 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I doubt the SPFL clubs care. Its financial more than anything. Look at how Berwick scraped a profit but needed their parachute payment to do it. 

You've also got those that go Highland so its not like Lowland league goings on matter to them. 

The only thing likely to change the SPFL play-off are more Tier 5 champions getting promoted. Which is  why most LL clubs chasing promotion are loading up on players from above not below. 

Well, many of those associated with the LL are the ones who regularly point to "ventilation at the top" before there is more "ventilation below" so to speak.

It's a well worn excuse for not opening up more relegation spots, however they don't have control of the former, but they do the latter.

[Amandajoan]

2 hours ago, Graeme said:

Edinburgh Uni pumped 9-0 at home by east kilbride today 

Absolute state of 'tier 5' in Scottish football when you've got Edinburgh uni, vale of leithen, dalbeattie star etc. a league up from Hurlford, Irvine, Tranent, Btoxburn and all the other decent ex junior sides.

3 relegation places from the lowland can't come soon enough, but they don't seem interested in speeding up the lowland's shift towards a standard that truly reflects tier 5 so that'll probably be no time soon.

 

It take a long time for the second Division to accept relegation. 

And even at that its still a half baked one.

And I do believe the Juniors were invited to join the Pyramid a few years before and most declined. 

[FairWeatherFan]

37 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Well, many of those associated with the LL are the ones who regularly point to "ventilation at the top" before there is more "ventilation below" so to speak.

It's a well worn excuse for not opening up more relegation spots, however they don't have control of the former, but they do the latter.

It's only a point i've seen made earlier in the year when George Fraser was doing the rounds being asked those kind of questions.

The Lowland League has always been about clubs getting licenced first as that's what provided the pathway to the SPFL. The LL finally has a second feeder that will provide a licenced champion every year once its established. The WoSFL and EoSFL collectively pushing for more promotion opportunities is what will change the promotion/relegation model between the LL and leagues below.

[Graeme]

15 minutes ago, Amandajoan said:

It take a long time for the second Division to accept relegation. 

And even at that its still a half baked one.

And I do believe the Juniors were invited to join the Pyramid a few years before and most declined. 

It took a long time to accept relegation because before the pyramid in its current format was established, lowland league was a backwater with a couple of decent sides and the clubs relegated would face massive loss of revenue. League is stronger now and with more clubs that have a fanbase (bonnyrigg, kelty, bo'ness from below, shire and berwick from above).

 

I agree though, bottom team in league 2 should go down, no chance of a play-off. No disrespect to the bottom half of the lowland, but if they were eventually replaced with the top sides of the EOSFL and WOSFL relegation from league 2 wouldn't be seen as such a disaster. For those relegated to the highland league it might still be seen as a potential slide into oblivion but that's another matter.

 

The juniors were invited originally but from what I understand it was a slap dash, last minute attempt at getting them onboard. Don't see how that's relevant to the point that the lowland should have more relegation places though.

[Marshmallo]

No one will be relegated from the LL this season. Been saying it since the summer.

[amigan]

Great result for Gala today shows they have a decent side this year.   Maybe benefitting from the demise of Selkirk in terms of attracting players from the region.

Also, why should clubs like VoL and Edinburgh uni who signed up at the start voluntarily make way for the ex juniors.  It will all right itself in the end.

Football is cyclical so wouldn't be surprised if teams like Whitehill did return to LL at some point.

Edited December 19, 2020 by amigan

[Burnieman]

Great result for Gala today shows they have a decent side this year.   Maybe benefitting from the demise of Selkirk in terms of attracting players from the region.
Also, why should clubs like VoL and Edinburgh uni who signed up at the start voluntarily make way for the ex juniors.  It will all right itself in the end.
Football is cyclical so wouldn't be surprised if teams like Whitehill did return to LL at some point.

Maybe Queens Park should never be relegated, afterall they started fitba up here....

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, Graeme said:

It took a long time to accept relegation because before the pyramid in its current format was established, lowland league was a backwater with a couple of decent sides and the clubs relegated would face massive loss of revenue. League is stronger now and with more clubs that have a fanbase (bonnyrigg, kelty, bo'ness from below, shire and berwick from above).

Berwick Rangers made a profit of £1,489 from June 2019-May 2020. While that does enter the period of when COVID would hit finances, the bigger loss for them will be the £40,000 parachute payment, Betfred Group participation which was at least £17,000 in prize money plus the couple of slightly higher gates they got. East Stirlingshire and Berwick Rangers have also seen a drop in attendance, fewer league games

The Lowland League is a money pit to most SPFL clubs. They still face a massive loss in income compared to SPFL football. That's why you see the usual suspects talk about scrapping relegation, just for a "couple of years" mind. Or entertaining ideas of expanding the SPFL in some way as long as it doesn't involve Colts.

[Graeme]

17 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Berwick Rangers made a profit of £1,489 from June 2019-May 2020. While that does enter the period of when COVID would hit finances, the bigger loss for them will be the £40,000 parachute payment, Betfred Group participation which was at least £17,000 in prize money plus the couple of slightly higher gates they got. East Stirlingshire and Berwick Rangers have also seen a drop in attendance, fewer league games

The Lowland League is a money pit to most SPFL clubs. They still face a massive loss in income compared to SPFL football. That's why you see the usual suspects talk about scrapping relegation, just for a "couple of years" mind. Or entertaining ideas of expanding the SPFL in some way as long as it doesn't involve Colts.

Aye that's right, always going to be a massive loss for those relegated losing out on the betfred cup money. Promotion of the big ex juniors at the expense of the bottom half of the lowland which has some clubs with barely any support would make the relegation more bearable though. Reality is most clubs getting relegated are likely to face revenue loss no matter what league they are in, but improving the standard and size of the fanbases in the league they are dropping into will soften the impact.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Graeme

[johnmc80]

No one will be relegated from the LL this season. Been saying it since the summer.

Can’t say i’ve noticed tbh.