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Lowland League 2020/21 General Chat

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3 minutes ago, No One Mourned the Juniors said:

I know they and their like (Stirling Albion, Albion Rovers, Stenhousemuir) have been blocking places for ambitious clubs for decades. Time to flush the floaters out of the National structure and let them find their true place in the local leagues.

For decades?

🤣 

Have a lie down.

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I know they and their like (Stirling Albion, Albion Rovers, Stenhousemuir) have been blocking places for ambitious clubs for decades. Time to flush the floaters out of the National structure and let them find their true place in the local leagues.
I'm all for more fluidity in the pyramid but deary me. There are folk studying for highers who can remember Stirling Albion being the best part-time team in the country.

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I'm all for more fluidity in the pyramid but deary me. There are folk studying for highers who can remember Stirling Albion being the best part-time team in the country.
Aye, I'm sure they do

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Aye, I'm sure they do
I think there's some projection going on here: not everyone's hippocampus in a state of irreversible decay.

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22 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:
35 minutes ago, Burnieman said:
Aye, I'm sure they do emoji23.png

I think there's some projection going on here: not everyone's hippocampus in a state of irreversible decay.

If folk are studying for their highers there what 15-18. Being generous that might be the 15 years to look back on. 

At what point were Stirling Albion the best part time team in the country? 

They might have been in the 2nd tier a couple of times, but dropped straight back down each time. At least the likes of Dumbarton, Alloa, Cowdenbeath could string consecutive seasons together. 

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10 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If folk are studying for their highers there what 15-18. Being generous that might be the 15 years to look back on. 

At what point were Stirling Albion the best part time team in the country? 

They might have been in the 2nd tier a couple of times, but dropped straight back down each time. At least the likes of Dumbarton, Alloa, Cowdenbeath could string consecutive seasons together. 

2007-8 they were the best part time team in the country. They also moved into a new stadium in 1997. These aren't the actions of a club who have been "blocking places for ambitious clubs for decades". Of course there have been better part-time teams this century and Stirling Albion may well find themselves in the Lowland League by the end of the decade, but that's irrelevant to the point.

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23 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

2007-8 they were the best part time team in the country. They also moved into a new stadium in 1997. These aren't the actions of a club who have been "blocking places for ambitious clubs for decades". Of course there have been better part-time teams this century and Stirling Albion may well find themselves in the Lowland League by the end of the decade, but that's irrelevant to the point.

Question is would you be happy  with automatic relegation being implemented from tier 4 to tier 5 to allow these "ambitious clubs" to progress ? 

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30 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Question is would you be happy  with automatic relegation being implemented from tier 4 to tier 5 to allow these "ambitious clubs" to progress ? 

Indeed I am.

12 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

I'm all for more fluidity in the pyramid

I'd be delighted to see Bonnyrigg, Pollok, the Broch, Tranent et cetera playing at national level. I think folk do the league two teams a bit of a disservice though. Of the ten, four of them have been in the second tier since the formation of the SPL, three have only been elected/promoted to the national leagues this century, Queen's Park are full time and have paid incredible service to the game. Then there's Stenny and Albion Rovers.

It's obvious a system should be put into place to enable clubs to fulfil their potential, it removes friction from the machine, it runs smoother as a result, and removes anomalies.

I'm the opposite of people who advocate Leagues one and two regionalising. Plot the finances of Scottish clubs and you'd get something close to exponential. That's why small leagues at the top end are a good idea. However, there's really not much difference between club 30 and club 70. I'd propose expanding leagues one and two to eighteen clubs once the LL, HL and former juniors are close to finding their appropriate place in the pecking order.  It'd give more variety of opposition, improve fluidity due to fewer bottlenecks and more promotion/relegation, remove the supposed existential threat to the likes of Cowden and Stenny, help solve the Highland League's issue with disparity and allow an extra further sixteen clubs to play at the national level which they're clearly capable of.

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On 30/01/2021 at 14:57, DiegoDiego said:

Indeed I am.

I'd be delighted to see Bonnyrigg, Pollok, the Broch, Tranent et cetera playing at national level. I think folk do the league two teams a bit of a disservice though. Of the ten, four of them have been in the second tier since the formation of the SPL, three have only been elected/promoted to the national leagues this century, Queen's Park are full time and have paid incredible service to the game. Then there's Stenny and Albion Rovers.

It's obvious a system should be put into place to enable clubs to fulfil their potential, it removes friction from the machine, it runs smoother as a result, and removes anomalies.

I'm the opposite of people who advocate Leagues one and two regionalising. Plot the finances of Scottish clubs and you'd get something close to exponential. That's why small leagues at the top end are a good idea. However, there's really not much difference between club 30 and club 70. I'd propose expanding leagues one and two to eighteen clubs once the LL, HL and former juniors are close to finding their appropriate place in the pecking order.  It'd give more variety of opposition, improve fluidity due to fewer bottlenecks and more promotion/relegation, remove the supposed existential threat to the likes of Cowden and Stenny, help solve the Highland League's issue with disparity and allow an extra further sixteen clubs to play at the national level which they're clearly capable of.

The best post I have read on this subject. 
 

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On 30/01/2021 at 14:57, DiegoDiego said:

Indeed I am.

I'd be delighted to see Bonnyrigg, Pollok, the Broch, Tranent et cetera playing at national level. I think folk do the league two teams a bit of a disservice though. Of the ten, four of them have been in the second tier since the formation of the SPL, three have only been elected/promoted to the national leagues this century, Queen's Park are full time and have paid incredible service to the game. Then there's Stenny and Albion Rovers.

It's obvious a system should be put into place to enable clubs to fulfil their potential, it removes friction from the machine, it runs smoother as a result, and removes anomalies.

I'm the opposite of people who advocate Leagues one and two regionalising. Plot the finances of Scottish clubs and you'd get something close to exponential. That's why small leagues at the top end are a good idea. However, there's really not much difference between club 30 and club 70. I'd propose expanding leagues one and two to eighteen clubs once the LL, HL and former juniors are close to finding their appropriate place in the pecking order.  It'd give more variety of opposition, improve fluidity due to fewer bottlenecks and more promotion/relegation, remove the supposed existential threat to the likes of Cowden and Stenny, help solve the Highland League's issue with disparity and allow an extra further sixteen clubs to play at the national level which they're clearly capable of.

Totally agree but try posting this on Fitba North and see the reaction you’ll get there... never going to happen unfortunately 

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8 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Totally agree but try posting this on Fitba North and see the reaction you’ll get there... never going to happen unfortunately 

I figured the Highland side of things would be the trickiest to negotiate. What's the main objection? Simply not many clubs wanting to go national I presume? Or is it also the smaller clubs not wanting to play in a much devalued league? Sixteen clubs is a hefty expansion, but in two tranches of eight with three automatic from each league and two via inter-league playoffs that might only equal six Highland/North Junior clubs, plus one promoted the following year and maybe two going back down.

And then there's Tayside...

No system is perfect, but I'm sure there are plenty out there which are less bad than the current one. The lease of life joining the pyramid has given former juniors has been excellent for Scottish Football, perhaps the most positive change in my lifetime, but the reason these clubs are seen as ambitious and Stenhousemuir not is that Tranent and Clydebank have hope for a brighter future. Unless things change, in a few seasons' time all momentum will have been lost.

I guess the key is gaining consensus for the need for change, and then having a version of the future where it seems beneficial for each club. I think League Two expansion is essential for that, but how to do it and keep the Highland clubs happy?

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On 30/01/2021 at 13:08, DiegoDiego said:

They also moved into a new stadium in 1997. These aren't the actions of a club who have been "blocking places for ambitious clubs for decades".

No they didnt. I'll let you google when they actually moved.

They also only moved as the only thing that saved them from being liquidated was the council buying their ground and then flogging it for housing* and then building them a new stadium next to the lcoal sewage works.  Its a club that has spent more than half of its time in the Scottish League system in the bottom division - they are the very definiton of a blocking club.

*- with the main stand being condemmed and mostly torn down long before the move and squeezing money from their investment by putting down the worst pitch I ever played on.

Edited by No One Mourned the Juniors

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On 30/01/2021 at 13:08, DiegoDiego said:

2007-8 they were the best part time team in the country.

Looked it up and they were bottom of the Championship by 14 points.

Aye, what an honour that was. This is their 8th season out of 9 in the bottom league and in that time they have finished in the play off spots twice. Time is thankfully ticking for this franchise outfit, soon they'll be playing where they should be in the non-leagues.

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2 minutes ago, No One Mourned the Juniors said:

No they didnt. I'll let you google when they actually moved /

They also only moved as the only thing that saved them from being liquidated was the council buying their ground and then flogging it for housing and then building a new stadium next to the lcoal sewage works.  Its a club that has spent more than half of its time in the Scottish League system in the bottom division - they are the very definiton of a blocking club.

Sorry, I did Wikipedia it before posting, that must have been a typo/brainfart. Stirling Albion have only finished in the bottom three once since Scotland went to four national divisions twenty-seven years past. What they did over a generation ago is as irrelevant to the here and now as what Jeanfield Swifts were doing back then. 

I think you're focusing far too much on one specific club and really missing the overall point I was trying to make. The difference between Stirling Albion and Bonnyrigg/Tranent/whoever isn't so much to do with their location/fanbase/board (though of course that is an element) as it is motivation. What ambition did Tranent have before Kelty shone a light on the opportunities? What opportunites do Stirling Albion have? Elgin City used to be called an ambitious club. In League Two there's been a lack of carrot and lack of stick. Since the trapdoor has been installed the fire has been well and truly lit under the arses of League Two chairmen and they're working far harder at fulfilling their potential than they were five years ago.

As for the "franchise outfit" comment I'm afraid that's gone straight over my head and a slur more commonly used for a few of the clubs you think Stirling Albion are blocking. We're trying to find practical solutions to the problem so we can build a better environment for every club in the ecosystem. Sarcasm and namecalling doesn't help anyone.

The problem isn't so much League Two clubs holding up others, someone has to be bottom after all, it's that there are far more clubs willing and able to play at a national level than there are places in the system. Expand the lower leagues and there doesn't need to be any tribal them vs us nonsense, this isn't a zero sum game, everyone can be winners. They're all football clubs at the end of the day.

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Highland clubs aren't good enough. Only Fraserburgh would have a chance of lasting in the SPFL.

Brora and Formartine would the now but are village teams with wealthy backers so would be humped once they walked away.

And what are people's obsession with Pollock being in the SPFL? Just cause they can get 1000 at a Junior Scottish Cup game. It's baffling considering they haven't won the West Juniors in 15 years. Same applies to Linlithgow Rose.

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Pollok and Linlithgow are bigger clubs than any in the HL or LL with the possible exception of Bonnyrigg or Bo'ness.

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13 hours ago, craigiemack said:

 

Brora and Formartine would the now but are village teams with wealthy backers so would be humped once they walked away.

The absolute brass neck of this, coming from a football club squatting in Grangemouth but chucking stupid money at players regardless.

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13 hours ago, craigiemack said:

Brora and Formartine would the now but are village teams with wealthy backers so would be humped once they walked away.

Yes, they're village teams. But they average attendances of 279 and 265 respectively from populations of less than 2,000.

On the other hand, East Stirlingshire have access to Falkirk's 35,000 residents, but only manage to attract 187. So less than 1%, compared to about 15% for the HR clubs.

Maybe they have something to learn from the "village teams"?

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SFA announced via Twitter that no Fitbaw anytime soon. Say they will provide another update by 1st March and add "This date should not be seen as a proposed restart date".


IMO mid March at the earliest before we can see via a stream a ball getting kicked........and that's me being an optimist.

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