Lowland League 2020/21 General Chat

[oldandround]

Every single interaction has an effect on the R number.  

Every single activity is assessed by the government to decide what parts of society are allowed to continue and what are needed to maintain cohesion and order in the community.

its been roundly discussed in all sections of the community that household gatherings are the biggest influencer on the spread of the virus.  Household parties are ongoing all over the place and continue to be shut down by the police.  A neighbour of mine in whitecraIg has house parties every week.  been fined a few times and has been the centre of a recent musselburgh outbreak.  Cares not a jot.

After that is pubs etc where drunken erses hing aboot each other getting all foosty.  So they were shut.  then restaurants as folk sit inside talking and spreading the virus.

Now they've shut non essential retail as people congregate around the checkout and clothes racks at next and pc world etc.  all indoors.  So they're shut.     

And schools.  oh schools.  The number of 16/17 year olds that have been positive or isolating round here is, well its a lot!.  That is because they cannot socially distance from each other.  they stand around street corners and and in doorways, swapping their germs.  So only options is to shut schools to prevent the wee rascals killing granny.

AS for football.  Im not aware of any large outbreaks anywhere.  Next to no mass self isolations.  its outside.  low risk, between heathy people.   The effect on the R number from "elite" football is so low as to be non quantifiable.  Cancelling football would make no discernible difference to the rate of the Virus propagation.  (grassroots is a different matter as a recent survey had 500,000 people in scotland are someway involved in grassroots football - be it playing, watching, driving kids to etc)

 Further football gives lots of people something to discuss, argue about, watch to take their minds of the horror show thats going on in hospitals and care homes to allow the government to get a grip on the vaccine rollout.  If you cancel football, there will be lots of dissent.  not doubt about it.  Keeping football going is a government priority as they know there are an extensive number of knuckle draggers who would simply throw their toys out the pram if its cancelled but B&Q is open.

So sure, you could cancel football, but I reckon (and it would appear the government currently agree) it would do more harm than good.

Also, current restriction appear to be working.  New Infections down 40% today on 2 days ago.

I dont want football to stop, despite all the prophecies of doom going around.  I want something to occupy my mind, and I dont reckon I'm alone.  There simply has to be more than just "the virus" to discuss.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by oldandround

[It's Me]

4 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

A safe environment would be to have crowds in to be able to watch?

As the old saying goes football without fans is nothing. If it was as safe as you're saying then let the fans in. 

Its shite not being able to get to a game on a Saturday. 

I never said have crowds in. I have only watched the games on streams and yes I agree it’s different but at least it’s football. 
During these crap times it’s actually felt good having a game to look forward to watching on a Saturday or an evening game. 
Yes, I would rather be there. But if I can watch online from the safety of my home then that’s a good thing. 

[Ginaro]

I can understand Dalbeattie and the SOS having concerns - as the rate in D&G is the the highest in Scotland at over 450. Though surely all D&G clubs should stop playing as well?

At the moment only the leagues which basically have nothing to play for and can easily change to a shorter season have stopped - with the SOS probably going the same way. For all the other leagues below the Premiership where there is something to play for however, they should be treated the same since none are tested - either pause or continue.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the rates over the next week.

1 hour ago, oldandround said:

And schools.  oh schools.  The number of 16/17 year olds that have been positive or isolating round here is, well its a lot!.  That is because they cannot socially distance from each other.  they stand around street corners and and in doorways, swapping their germs.  So only options is to shut schools to prevent the wee rascals killing granny.

Schools being open add almost 0.4 on the R number, wonder how miniscule in comparison the current level of football adds?

[newcastle broon]

42 minutes ago, It's Me said:

I never said have crowds in. I have only watched the games on streams and yes I agree it’s different but at least it’s football. 
During these crap times it’s actually felt good having a game to look forward to watching on a Saturday or an evening game. 
Yes, I would rather be there. But if I can watch online from the safety of my home then that’s a good thing. 

Well I'm the opposite,its better than nowt having streams but just not for me. It's bad enough watching full time fitba on the box wi the pathetic fake crowd noises  

Heres something I found amusing from being out and about earlier this season 

 

[It's Me]

31 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Well I'm the opposite,its better than nowt having streams but just not for me. It's bad enough watching full time fitba on the box wi the pathetic fake crowd noises  

Heres something I found amusing from being out and about earlier this season 

 

Here’s hoping streams are only for the rest of this season and we can then get back to football as we knew it. 

[AlansHotBath]

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/scottish-fa-board-confirms-three-week-suspension-of-professional-football-beneath-spfl-championship/?rid=13929

League (and everything else below tier 2) is off til February at the earliest.

[AlansHotBath]

Although the chances of it being back by 31st Jan look slim at best - the transmission rates are still going wild since Christmas and will take a while to taper off now. 

[oldandround]

8 minutes ago, AlansHotBath said:

Although the chanceonly s of it being back by 31st Jan look slim at best - the transmission rates are still going wild since Christmas and will take a while to taper off now. 

Only in the west that is.  9 positives in east lothian on each of the last two days.  if that extrapolates to a count of 60 cases per 100k.  thats level 2 figures.

This is rubbish and disappointing 

[craigiemack]

6 hours ago, oldandround said:

Only in the west that is.  9 positives in east lothian on each of the last two days.  if that extrapolates to a count of 60 cases per 100k.  thats level 2 figures.

This is rubbish and disappointing 

But that doesn't really matter does it?

The league is obviously a multi council league. It wouldn't be safe or right for teams or players from East Lothian to travel to Dumfries and Galloway. Falkirk has a low figure too but pretty much all the team come from Glasgow or Edinburgh. Quite a few from Inverclyde where the cases are rocketing. So unless you have a league where all the teams and players comes from the same council or a low rate council it won't be safe to start again for some time.

In all honesty we're lucky we got this far. We've continued as we're classified as professional but let's be honest. There is nothing professional about football at this level.

[oldandround]

23 minutes ago, craigiemack said:

But that doesn't really matter does it?

The league is obviously a multi council league. It wouldn't be safe or right for teams or players from East Lothian to travel to Dumfries and Galloway. Falkirk has a low figure too but pretty much all the team come from Glasgow or Edinburgh. Quite a few from Inverclyde where the cases are rocketing. So unless you have a league where all the teams and players comes from the same council or a low rate council it won't be safe to start again for some time.

In all honesty we're lucky we got this far. We've continued as we're classified as professional but let's be honest. There is nothing professional about football at this level.

I know you're right, but Im in mourning for my football fix and not thinking properly as a result.......

Its just rubbish just now.

Hopefully get back the middle of February

[craigiemack]

1 hour ago, oldandround said:

I know you're right, but Im in mourning for my football fix and not thinking properly as a result.......

Its just rubbish just now.

Hopefully get back the middle of February

Oh I completely understand. The only thing i had planned for this week was the shire v bo ness game so I now have nothing to do or look forward to for a wee while. Hopefully things will take a turn for the better soon but I honestly dont see fans getting back till at least next season. In all honesty I think it'll be 2022 before that happens and thats a grim thought. Take care.

[AlansHotBath]

Watching the FM's briefing thing today, she has said it's very unlikely there will be wholesale lifting of restrictions going into February, and possibly zero change. Probably not that surprising, the number of people in hospital each day is higher than the previous peak in April.

Anyway, I think this season is over. By the time it's allowed to get back up and running (which won't be until probably March at the absolute, best case scenario earliest, I'd guess - but almost certainly later) including a pre-season, there is no way to finish the league in the usual calendar.

The league will need to decide - do they scrap another season (unsure if there is a certain distance through the season we need to get before PPG is justified as a way to decide final standings) or try to pick it up again at a later date. The latter option messes with following seasons, so may not be viable. Both will mess with the promotion play-offs at both ends of the league, so at least we can look forward to another year of comments about certain teams holding back Scottish football by not being relegated. 

[craigiemack]

2 hours ago, AlansHotBath said:

Watching the FM's briefing thing today, she has said it's very unlikely there will be wholesale lifting of restrictions going into February, and possibly zero change. Probably not that surprising, the number of people in hospital each day is higher than the previous peak in April.

Anyway, I think this season is over. By the time it's allowed to get back up and running (which won't be until probably March at the absolute, best case scenario earliest, I'd guess - but almost certainly later) including a pre-season, there is no way to finish the league in the usual calendar.

The league will need to decide - do they scrap another season (unsure if there is a certain distance through the season we need to get before PPG is justified as a way to decide final standings) or try to pick it up again at a later date. The latter option messes with following seasons, so may not be viable. Both will mess with the promotion play-offs at both ends of the league, so at least we can look forward to another year of comments about certain teams holding back Scottish football by not being relegated. 

I agree that I think this season is done. Don't think you can do PPG when the league hasn't done a full round. Similarly would be incredibly harsh to relegate anyone after so little games despite it being pretty clear who'll be down at the bottom come the end of the year. I still think we need to do everything to keep the pyramid moving though so I'd promote a team from each of the feeder leagues then relegate 4-6 teams 2021/2022. However I think the most likely option is everything just staying as it is and we go again next year. Another year of kelty romping the league, great

[Jerry Macguire]

1 hour ago, craigiemack said:

I agree that I think this season is done. Don't think you can do PPG when the league hasn't done a full round. Similarly would be incredibly harsh to relegate anyone after so little games despite it being pretty clear who'll be down at the bottom come the end of the year. I still think we need to do everything to keep the pyramid moving though so I'd promote a team from each of the feeder leagues then relegate 4-6 teams 2021/2022. However I think the most likely option is everything just staying as it is and we go again next year. Another year of kelty romping the league, great

I agree with you and Alan on this. I think we’re done for this season. Although it’s worth keeping in mind this was a decision by the SFA not the SG, so it doesn’t necessarily follow that they need restrictions elsewhere to ease before restarting the lower leagues. On the PPG scenario, my understanding is that 50% of all league fixtures had to be completed before that could be applied this season. As it stands we haven’t reached the required number of games. Therefore if we can’t restart then the most likely outcome is null and void.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Jerry Macguire said:

I agree with you and Alan on this. I think we’re done for this season. Although it’s worth keeping in mind this was a decision by the SFA not the SG, so it doesn’t necessarily follow that they need restrictions elsewhere to ease before restarting the lower leagues. On the PPG scenario, my understanding is that 50% of all league fixtures had to be completed before that could be applied this season. As it stands we haven’t reached the required number of games. Therefore if we can’t restart then the most likely outcome is null and void.

Could always try and pivot to a single round robin? That would get to the 50% mark and not sure if anyone's played the same team twice yet.

[oldandround]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

I agree with you and Alan on this. I think we’re done for this season. Although it’s worth keeping in mind this was a decision by the SFA not the SG, so it doesn’t necessarily follow that they need restrictions elsewhere to ease before restarting the lower leagues. On the PPG scenario, my understanding is that 50% of all league fixtures had to be completed before that could be applied this season. As it stands we haven’t reached the required number of games. Therefore if we can’t restart then the most likely outcome is null and void.

Why so negative?

With the over 70s all vaccinated by middle of February, schools will on the balance of probabilities be back after the February holidays.

Once that happens, the league will start back up with games restarting 1st week in March

(all in my dream state but it could be correct!)

[Jerry Macguire]

29 minutes ago, oldandround said:

Why so negative?

With the over 70s all vaccinated by middle of February, schools will on the balance of probabilities be back after the February holidays.

Once that happens, the league will start back up with games restarting 1st week in March

(all in my dream state but it could be correct!)

Problem is if teams do get the go ahead a period of time will be required for clubs to get their players prepared for the restart. Don’t forget the ban covers all football activities, so no training. So if football doesn’t start until the 1st of March, in reality your looking at early April before the league can resume. That would make it impossible for the remaining fixtures to be completed before the end of May or whenever the play offs take place. 

[oldandround]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

Problem is if teams do get the go ahead a period of time will be required for clubs to get their players prepared for the restart. Don’t forget the ban covers all football activities, so no training. So if football doesn’t start until the 1st of March, in reality your looking at early April before the league can resume. That would make it impossible for the remaining fixtures to be completed before the end of May or whenever the play offs take place. 

Only if the teams press it. 

If they really wanted to, its just 2 weeks to return and then go for it.  Its not been a 6 months long shut down or like a normal off season with new players to be incorporated into the team

It should just be a couple of weeks to dust off the cobwebs and back at it.  Any players sitting in the house eating pies just now instead of out running need hunting anyway!

Its a special season and requires special circumstances to come into play.

Look for reasons to play and not the other way around and they will be found.

I fully expect eg Kelty and Bonnyrigg to be up for it, but Dalbeattie, Edin uni / Vale etc to be "reticent" and looking for a voiding.  

 

[Jerry Macguire]

39 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Could always try and pivot to a single round robin? That would get to the 50% mark and not sure if anyone's played the same team twice yet.

It’s possible but first we need a restart date. There are a lot of ducks that need to be lined up and a lot of cooperation between clubs, the leagues, SPFL and SFA. I’m  not sure that’s possible. Hope I’m wrong and happily come back on here to take a verbal beating if I am.

[Jerry Macguire]

3 minutes ago, oldandround said:

Only if the teams press it. 

If they really wanted to, its just 2 weeks to return and then go for it.  Its not been a 6 months long shut down or like a normal off season with new players to be incorporated into the team

It should just be a couple of weeks to dust off the cobwebs and back at it.  Any players sitting in the house eating pies just now instead of out running need hunting anyway!

Its a special season and requires special circumstances to come into play.

Look for reasons to play and not the other way around and they will be found.

I fully expect eg Kelty and Bonnyrigg to be up for it, but Dalbeattie, Edin uni / Vale etc to be "reticent" and looking for a voiding.  

 

2 weeks might well be possible if it’s the end of January, if it’s the end of March I’m not so sure. Your then gambling with players fitness and potentially exposing them to a higher risk of injury.