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OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-


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3 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Fair play on the first bit . 

On the second bit I am pretty sure he did , with United agreeing to a 10% selling on fee  as a sweetener. 

Cool, well you're wrong.  He couldn't agree a pre-contract with us even if we'd wanted to, as he was under 24.  So any transfer was subject to a compensation payment.

We bid for him in the January, admittedly at a pretty low price plus a sell-on, which United accepted.  

 

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17 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Why non-Hearts fans can't see that once a player decides he doesn't want to be at Hearts we don't have to want him at the club is baffling.

Hearts didn't sign him on a pre-contract, so yes.

 

Aye they did.  Then he left at the end of the window instead. 

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38 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

He wasn't available to us on a pre-contract.  He would have been out of contract though.

He was available on a pre-contract. Just because a player is under 24 doesn’t mean they can’t be signed on a Bosman, which is what Hearts did with Souttar. It just means you have to pay more for him.

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1 hour ago, G51 said:

He was available on a pre-contract. Just because a player is under 24 doesn’t mean they can’t be signed on a Bosman, which is what Hearts did with Souttar. It just means you have to pay more for him.

Are people just being wilfully thick or is it me?

Souttar was out of contract at end of 2015/16, correct.

Could we have signed him at the end of that season, yes.

Did we?  No, we agreed a transfer fee with Dundee United in January.

Had he signed a pre-contract agreement with us prior to the deal?  No.

You can't sign under 24 year olds on a pre-contract agreement, because you have to agree compensation with the club, or through a tribunal.

 

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2 hours ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Cool, well you're wrong.  He couldn't agree a pre-contract with us even if we'd wanted to, as he was under 24.  So any transfer was subject to a compensation payment.

We bid for him in the January, admittedly at a pretty low price plus a sell-on, which United accepted.  

 

Ok . I concede. 

I only hope Hearts have their business head on and sort out a sell on clause with the rangers after his next move. 

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10 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Are people just being wilfully thick or is it me?

Souttar was out of contract at end of 2015/16, correct.

Could we have signed him at the end of that season, yes.

Did we?  No, we agreed a transfer fee with Dundee United in January.

Had he signed a pre-contract agreement with us prior to the deal?  No.

You can't sign under 24 year olds on a pre-contract agreement, because you have to agree compensation with the club, or through a tribunal.

 

You can though. 

We signed Lewis Ferguson when he was out of contract and the compensation wasn’t agreed until well into his time with us. 

saying that he may have signed after his contract expired. 

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Just now, Dons_1988 said:

You can though. 

We signed Lewis Ferguson when he was out of contract and the compensation wasn’t agreed until well into his time with us. 

saying that he may have signed after his contract expired. 

I know you can sign folk under freedom of contract without having agreed compensation, then let a tribunal sort it.

I'm pretty sure you can't sign a pre-contract with them.

I know for certain we didn't sign a pre-contract with Souttar, cause we didn't need to.

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45 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

Having done a bit of checking, I will correct myself - you can indeed sign an u24 on a pre-contract.

Doesn't change the fact we hadn't with Souttar

Aye Souttar was a straight transfer for a low fee as his contract was winding down.

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So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021?

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Can someone send a nurse round to Hoos.net Rice’s house? The guy is clearly in a bad way. 

Sensational stuff though. Might have to pop on to a Hibs thread and see if his chronic da patter is par for the course, or if he just shits the bed when he’s on Hearts threads. 

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19 minutes ago, G51 said:

So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021?

Are you just at the wind-up here, in which case fair play.

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20 minutes ago, G51 said:

So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021?

The differences are:

1) whether or not HMFC get financial recompense

2) Souttar was unpopular, played out of position and struggling badly at United. They weren’t overly bothered about keeping him.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Kyle Reese said:

The differences are:

1) whether or not HMFC get financial recompense

2) Souttar was unpopular, played out of position and struggling badly at United. They weren’t overly bothered about keeping him.

 

 

Another thing which people seem to overlook, is that Dundee United aren't a rival to Hearts, nor were they at the time. United were bottom and going down. As you say, United were happy to cash in on him and it was in his best interests to leave a sinking ship.

Souttar leaving us on a free for Rangers has the potential to weaken us while strengthening a rival, purely out of self interest. Many will defend his motives which is fair enough, but its really not rocket science as to why that would leave a bitter taste in the mouth of us, the fans.

Pre-contract very much are a part of football and sure, we've signed plenty ourselves. But context is key, and in this case, its very clear why Hearts supporters are not one bit happy with John Souttar.

Also, comments about it being our fault for not negotiating a contract with him. I can only go on rumours I've read elsewhere, but if they're true, we pulled out all the stops to keep Souttar and were prepared to make him a substantial offer. But we can't match Rangers and Souttar knows that, thus pointing to one clear motive: Money.

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47 minutes ago, Connor1874 said:

Another thing which people seem to overlook, is that Dundee United aren't a rival to Hearts, nor were they at the time. United were bottom and going down. As you say, United were happy to cash in on him and it was in his best interests to leave a sinking ship.

Souttar leaving us on a free for Rangers has the potential to weaken us while strengthening a rival, purely out of self interest. Many will defend his motives which is fair enough, but its really not rocket science as to why that would leave a bitter taste in the mouth of us, the fans.

Pre-contract very much are a part of football and sure, we've signed plenty ourselves. But context is key, and in this case, its very clear why Hearts supporters are not one bit happy with John Souttar.

Also, comments about it being our fault for not negotiating a contract with him. I can only go on rumours I've read elsewhere, but if they're true, we pulled out all the stops to keep Souttar and were prepared to make him a substantial offer. But we can't match Rangers and Souttar knows that, thus pointing to one clear motive: Money.

Good post. A lot of points that some people are obtusely choosing to ignore there. 

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On 17/01/2022 at 11:51, AJF said:

There is no danger Rangers will be paying anywhere near that to bring him in this window.

Presumably '1/2 million' means half a million, which is what Hearts are reported to be after for his January signature.

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  • Tynie Tappertit changed the title to OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-

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