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OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-


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2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

We’re currently on 13 points from 7 a pace that would put us on 61 slightly ahead of last season

it’s hard to predict a margin because we don’t know who the team in fourth will be, never mind how many points they’ll have.

Maybe somebody in the pack will be able to string a longer run of decent form together than any of them managed last season.

Having more money is an advantage, having more games is a disadvantage so you’d expect the two to cancel each other out to some extent in the first half of the season and then for us to pick up pace once the European adventure finally finishes

October will be our most difficult month of the season. We arrested our dip in form at just the right time. In hindsight, due to Livi's home record, arguably the only shocker we had was Killie at home in the League Cup, but it was always going to be our fourth and lowest priority anyway. Another run in the Scottish Cup would be nice, but by far the most important thing we can do this season is to wrap up third place again. I can't see anyone outside of the Old Firm winning either of the cups, though again we'd be the most likely.

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10 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

We’re currently on 13 points from 7 a pace that would put us on 61 slightly ahead of last season

it’s hard to predict a margin because we don’t know who the team in fourth will be, never mind how many points they’ll have. 

Maybe somebody in the pack will be able to string a longer run of decent form together than any of them managed last season.

Having more money is an advantage, having more games is a disadvantage so you’d expect the two to cancel each other out to some extent in the first half of the season and then for us to pick up pace once the European adventure finally finishes

 

 

Comparing against equivalent games last year:

Ross County (h): 2-1 / 2-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Hibernian (a): 0-0 / 1-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Dundee United (h): 5-2 / 4-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Celtic (a): 0-1 / 0-2; +0 pts -1 GD.

St Johnstone (h): 2-0 / 3-2; +0 pts -1 GD.

Livingston (a): 1-0 / 0-1; -3 pts -2 GD.

Motherwell (a): 0-2 / 3-0; +3 pts +5 GD.

Overall: 10-6 / 13-8; +0 pts +1 GD.

Considering the injuries and fixture congestion, we've done well so far. Scoring more goals is the encouraging thing as Halkett and Rowles coming back should improve the defensive side of things. Beni and Kio arguably as well.

To keep matching last season we'd need to take another 13 points by the World Cup. With another 4 European games to play, that's going to be very tough, especially as that 13 points includes a win against Celtic and away at Dundee (who've been replaced by Kilmarnock). I'd say if we make it through that within 3 or 4 points of 3rd then we're doing well.

The good thing is, that like last season, nobody else looks capable of putting a run together so far.

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We downed tools and chopped and changed things when third place and the cup final were already in the bag. Would have picked up more points if they were required.

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2 hours ago, DC92 said:

Comparing against equivalent games last year:

Ross County (h): 2-1 / 2-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Hibernian (a): 0-0 / 1-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Dundee United (h): 5-2 / 4-1; +0 pts +0 GD.

Celtic (a): 0-1 / 0-2; +0 pts -1 GD.

St Johnstone (h): 2-0 / 3-2; +0 pts -1 GD.

Livingston (a): 1-0 / 0-1; -3 pts -2 GD.

Motherwell (a): 0-2 / 3-0; +3 pts +5 GD.

Overall: 10-6 / 13-8; +0 pts +1 GD.

Considering the injuries and fixture congestion, we've done well so far. Scoring more goals is the encouraging thing as Halkett and Rowles coming back should improve the defensive side of things. Beni and Kio arguably as well.

To keep matching last season we'd need to take another 13 points by the World Cup. With another 4 European games to play, that's going to be very tough, especially as that 13 points includes a win against Celtic and away at Dundee (who've been replaced by Kilmarnock). I'd say if we make it through that within 3 or 4 points of 3rd then we're doing well.

The good thing is, that like last season, nobody else looks capable of putting a run together so far.

For all the fuss about being 3rd there’s half a dozen teams within three points and 31 games left 

If this were the Tour de France we’d be at the front of the peloton with a long way to go. We’ll swap positions a few times before this settles out

 

 

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26 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

For all the fuss about being 3rd there’s half a dozen teams within three points and 31 games left 

If this were the Tour de France we’d be at the front of the peloton with a long way to go. We’ll swap positions a few times before this settles out

 

 

We will swap in and out, for example we'll probably lose ground when we play Rangers in the next game.

But being third is significant in that we've been quite severely hamstrung by injuries and congestion, and were always likely to need to make up ground on teams who will pull away from us. The longer we're third, the less work we'll need to do later.

I'd expected big-spending Aberdeen to be third at this point going by the layout of the early fixtures. So, being ahead of them is a bonus. Especially as we're likely to be much, much stronger in the second half of the season. Get to the World Cup within 6 or 7 points of third and I think we'll be fine.

I've seen absolutely nothing to cause us concern looking ahead to the rest of the season from the other teams. This is very encouraging.

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Despite fundamentally disagreeing with the reasons behind it, I was quietly delighted about the St Mirren game being postponed. It seems to have given us an opportunity to regroup and get players back when things were unravelling.

It's not often you get to treat a major historical moment like a goal just before half-time, but the Queen's death really came at a good time for us. 

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3 hours ago, DC92 said:

Despite fundamentally disagreeing with the reasons behind it, I was quietly delighted about the St Mirren game being postponed. It seems to have given us an opportunity to regroup and get players back when things were unravelling.

It's not often you get to treat a major historical moment like a goal just before half-time, but the Queen's death really came at a good time for us. 

Auld Betty leaving one final gift for the Establishment Club, imho. 😎

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5 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said:

Any of you agreeing with the kickback lunatics that Robbies your best manager in decades? :lol: 

Too early to say

Paulo Sergio only had 47 games, Burley only had 12 so I'm ruling them out of consideration

The rate of turnover is such that only Robbie, Levein and Jefferies have over 100 games since Joe Jordan 30 years ago.

Levein and Jefferies both saw their second stints end in a bit of a mess. Neilson second stints hasn't

yet

 

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1 minute ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Too early to say

Paulo Sergio only had 47 games, Burley only had 12 so I'm ruling them out of consideration

The rate of turnover is such that only Robbie, Levein and Jefferies have over 100 games since Joe Jordan 30 years ago.

Levein and Jefferies both saw their second stints end in a bit of a mess. Neilson second stints hasn't

yet

 

JJ was a much much better manager than RN.  Even Levein was 1st time around.  As Was Alex McDonald Sergio and Burley despite the latter 2s lack of games. 

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JJ won the cup, nearly won the league, took us to three cup finals in three seasons (should have won two cups), all done with a team that was exciting to watch with some great signings and developing a lot of our own young players, pumped Hibs 4 times in a single calendar year (1997), has five wins at Easter Road to his name, and gave us another really fun season in his second spell before it went wrong at the end. That said, his last league finish was 3rd and the following season started with a good draw at Ibrox. Probably our last coach with a regularly good away record too.

Best since McDonald by miles.

Edited by VincentGuerin
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14 hours ago, Hoose Rice said:

Any of you agreeing with the kickback lunatics that Robbies your best manager in decades? :lol: 

He has a decent record, but two of the seasons he's managed have been in the Championship, so you can't just judge based on his win percentage.

There's also the mess we were in between his two spells. 

I've been critical of Robbie at times, but I'm a c**t, and it's been more good than bad. 

I guess he'll be judged when it's all over.

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16 hours ago, Hoose Rice said:

JJ was a much much better manager than RN.  Even Levein was 1st time around.  As Was Alex McDonald Sergio and Burley despite the latter 2s lack of games. 

I ignored managers with brief careers because otherwise we're comparing sprint performances with marathons and at the risk of making everyone feel old the original question was best manager "in decades" and Alex McDonald left 32 years ago 

@VincentGuerin is right, by most sensible measures, in saying JJ is on top but there's still plenty of time for Neilson to add to his score and move in front.

There's also plenty of time for things to go disastrously wrong and for his legacy to be as tarnished as Levein's but I try not to think about that 

 



 

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I think JJ had the ability to get decent players playing above and beyond what they would otherwise have been capable of - I think Alex McDonald maybe had this too, and that's a rare and special skill, for wont of a better word. 

Not sure whether RN could do that, but you never know. 

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On 18/09/2022 at 22:59, Elixir said:

October will be our most difficult month of the season. We arrested our dip in form at just the right time. In hindsight, due to Livi's home record, arguably the only shocker we had was Killie at home in the League Cup, but it was always going to be our fourth and lowest priority anyway. Another run in the Scottish Cup would be nice, but by far the most important thing we can do this season is to wrap up third place again. I can't see anyone outside of the Old Firm winning either of the cups, though again we'd be the most likely.

To be fair, the home record argument with us is a bit of a myth. We had a better away record last season

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1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

To be fair, the home record argument with us is a bit of a myth. We had a better away record last season

Livi just always seem to give teams a game at home, not least the Old Firm. You have certainly started well at home this season.

As for Neilson, he needs to win something at Hearts to be remembered in the same bracket as Jefferies and Sergio.

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34 minutes ago, Elixir said:

As for Neilson, he needs to win something at Hearts to be remembered in the same bracket as Jefferies and Sergio.

Our league season under Sergio was mediocre and if we'd lost the semi final in extra time he wouldn't even be mentioned in this context

But crucially we didn't so he, quite rightly, is regarded as a total legend

Similarly Alan Stubbs, the man who fucked up two consecutive promotion campaigns, is probably at least on @Hoose Rice's shortlist

 

 

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16 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Our league season under Sergio was mediocre and if we'd lost the semi final in extra time he wouldn't even be mentioned in this context

But crucially we didn't so he, quite rightly, is regarded as a total legend

Similarly Alan Stubbs, the man who fucked up two consecutive promotion campaigns, is probably at least on @Hoose Rice's shortlist

 

 

I wouldn't call coming in to the club with virtually no players and finishing second in a league with Rangers and Hearts fucking up tbh.

Next season we finished again behind Rangers `but made the League Cup Final and won the Scottish Cup and built a team to piss the league the following year.

Yes, it's fair to say Stubbsy is on my list ;) 

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1 hour ago, Hoose Rice said:

I wouldn't call coming in to the club with virtually no players and finishing second in a league with Rangers and Hearts fucking up tbh.

Next season we finished again behind Rangers `but made the League Cup Final and won the Scottish Cup and built a team to piss the league the following year.

Yes, it's fair to say Stubbsy is on my list ;) 

Were Hibs second that year?

The gap got so big we couldn't see over it to tell.

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