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OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-


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On 05/12/2022 at 13:32, Stylish Kid said:

Ok so, 

It's still the off-period, and I was a bit bored. So I started thinking about our squad strength in comparison to Robbie Neilson's last match in charge. I recall in our season in the Championship (20-21), RN reckoned that his team was stronger than his previous stint in the Championship with us (14-15).  I was skeptical then, however now I think that statement probably rings true....

I've compared the starting line-ups in RN's final match in 2016 vs Rangers (2-0) [https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38073798] , vs the most recent match against Livi (1-1) [https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63523886].  The line-ups in the 2 matches provided a 4-4-1-1 and a 4-1-4-1, so I've tweaked the positions slightly to give a man-for man comparson, and tried to score each player. Happy for people to shoot me down or offer differing opinions (particularly on certain players!)

 

GK: 

  • 2016: Jack Hamilton (7/10) - although his subsequent career has not been good, it is worth remembering that he actually was called up to the Soctland men's squad, although uncapped. 
  • 2022: Craig Gordon (9/10) - Probably better last season, but you're unlikely to get a better quality keeper in the SPFL. Probably brings bigger postitive squad influence

RB:

  • 2016: Callum Patterson (9/10) - probably an 8/10 player at the time really, however he was so important to our style of play at the time, effectively covering the whole of the right flank with his athleticisim. Also scored a phonemanl number of goals and was an important ariel presence in both boxes
  • 2022: Michael Smith (6/10) - reliably a 7/10 performer for years in some terrible Hearts teams, but age is starting to show

RCB: 

  • 2016: John Souttar (6/10) - At the time, he wasn't such a big player for us, still raw however. 
  • 2022: Toby Sibbick (6/10) - I see a lot of parallels, in that we have a raw quality player who gets absolute pelters by some sections of our support. Has been invaluable coming into form in the last month or so

LCB:

  • 2016: Igor Rossi (6/10) – for me, a fairly unmemorable player. Solid, but to be perfectly honest I didn’t really shed a tear when he left (sorry Igor!)
  • 2022: Kye Rowles (9/10) – I scored him at about 6 when I initially drafted this, but on reflection how important he has become in so few matches highlight that he is quality, not just early form

LB:

  • 2016: Facaly Rherras (3/10) – Not as terrible as Oshanwina or Lennard Sowah in terms of single-season LB’s, but again did not exactly set the heather alight. Should have kept Adam Ekersley that season. Following a check of his career history, he loses a point for going on loan to Hibs 2 seasons later
  • 2022: Alex Cochrane (8/10) – really stepped up this season, both in terms of importance to the team (as highlighted by Craig Gordon when asked on his best team mates across both spells at Hearts). Covered at LCB as needed too.

RM: 

  • 2016: Jamie Walker (8/10) – A key member of the promotion-winning team. I always wonder what could have been if the Walker/Patterson/Nicholson axis had been kept. Always an important performer for us, even in his not-so-good second spell where he’d lost a yard of pace, always popped up with important goals. A Jambo through-and-through, would be an asset to almost any Hearts team past or present.  
  • 2022: Gino  (710) – Last season, might have got a 4 or a 5, but like Cochrane and others has really stepped up with the injuries. Probably gets a higher rating than he would have because he scored the last minute equaliser…

CM: 

  • 2016: Don Cowie (8/10) – Recently lambasted on this forum, but probably one of our better performers at the time. A great professional who did give it his all (unlike other older players!).   
  • 2022: Orestis Kiomourtzoglou (5/10) – If he was a freebie, he’d probably get a point more, but has taken a lot of criticism, on account of coming with a big price tag and reputation. Expect more from him in the next “half” of the season, and has already shown flashes of potential with MoTM against Ross County

CM:

  • 2016: Perry Kitchen (6/10) – A solid 6/10 every week. Unflashy, and somehow was made captain for unfathomable reasons, other than to give him a moniker based on a Marvel ™ character. Recently retired tragically early.
  • 2022: Cammy Devlin (8/10) – another to file under “stepped up to the plate this year”. Still has amazing potential, and brings something intangible to the pitch over and above skill, energy, and tactical nous.

C(A)M: 

  • 2016: Arnaud Djoum (6/10) – Similarly to “Kio” of now-a-days, perhaps loses a point for being expensive! Trusted by successive managers, always looked like he was playing at 80%. Technically gifted and a first-team starter, played over 100 times and had a decent goalscoring rate from midfield .  
  • 2022: Robert Snodgrass (710) – Arguably comparable to Don Cowie in terms of career stage and what he brought. Might not get many seasons out of him, but he’s important for now

FW:

  • 2016: Bjorn Johnsen (6/10) – Yet another in a long list of strikers to have been signed by Hearts, only to fail to hit the back of the net regularly. Worth noting that he was SPFL player of the month that month.  
  • 2022: Lawrence Shankland (8/10) – Completely different player to Johnsen, however has, on balance, been a good signing and is perhaps a more complete player than people expected.

Totals:

2016: 69/110

2022: 74/110

 

Subs – you can argue about them yourselves….

Johnsen was a really weird one. A Bambi figure, but clearly had something. Then went off to Holland and started banging them in for fun. Some consolation in that his subsequent form shows that to be a bit of a one-off rather than another decent striker we ruined.

Agree you've been a bit kind to Jack Hamilton. Mind-boggling that he got a Scotland call-up.

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11 hours ago, Navallion said:

Boycie gettin an extension surely means we wont be gettin Paterson or Humphries on a permanant deal?

Would definitely prefered either of them, boycie wont be 100% when back from injury and he didn't score enough frankly. 

Boyce re-signed is a good deal. It's only one more year, and what he brings to the team is way more than goals. We've definitely missed him.

It's one of these where if he'd moved on I'd have understood, but I think keeping him is a decent shout.

I don't think re-signing him precludes either of the other deals at all. I think there's been a recognition that the squad is light for our requirements these days.

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3 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said:

Question - Shankland is what, 27? If he keeps banging in the goals, does he attract attention from a bigger club, or is he later in his career that the opportunity for a move (presumably) down south would not be on the cards?

Been wondering this myself. There's an argument that there's a Rudi-style situation where he's now at his level and that might just work for him.

At 28 next season his options down south will be starting to shrink, but there's always some daft Championship club looking to chuck money around. That said, I'm not sure he's physical enough for it. Not in terms of ability, but in terms of physicality the EFL has completely different requirements. More suited to someone like Paterson than Shankland imo.

Still, I'd be interested to see our approach should there be cash on the table in the summer. Probably depends whether we've got group stage fitba again. We certainly don't need to sell.

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I just find it hard to see anyone paying an amount of money that's worth us parting with a 20-a-season striker. I think he'll be with us for at least the duration of his current contract unless there's silly money on offer from the middle east or China or something. 

It's been a great bit of recruitment. People questioned it because he didn't hit 15 for Dundee United but he'd have been out of our price range if he had. Those that pointed out that scoring 8 in 32 (none were penalties) for a team that created half the chances we do is actually an encouraging return have been proven emphatically correct.

That's the type of signing we have to identify if we want to spend money wisely. Good players who are being misused, underused or have some other mitigating circumstance which prevents them from reaching their potential at their current club. Well, that and Australians.

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4 hours ago, AJF said:

I’m not sure there will be too much interest from anyone to pay a decent fee for Shankland. I think his failed move to Belgium off the back off performances in the SPFL will put people off.

His move to Belgium was really off the back of performances in the Championship, for all Utd were in the Premiership at the time. I tend to agree that his time for a big move has maybe passed him by (and it's take silly money for us to sell him, imo), but if he ends up top scorer in Scotland this year, that's a statement bigger and better than anything he did pre-Belgium.

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1 hour ago, lennyzer0 said:

His move to Belgium was really off the back of performances in the Championship, for all Utd were in the Premiership at the time. I tend to agree that his time for a big move has maybe passed him by (and it's take silly money for us to sell him, imo), but if he ends up top scorer in Scotland this year, that's a statement bigger and better than anything he did pre-Belgium.

It's also true that the team he played for in Belgium were a shambles.

Overall, I'd be surprised if he's not playing for us for the next couple of years. And if he's not, we'll have done well out of the deal. Fine either way.

It is great to have a goalscorer though. That second goal was the most un-Hearts goal imaginable. Well-delivered set-piece stuck away with a goalscorer's finish.

Snodgrass's deliveries are vastly better than what we've been used to for years too.

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I mean you guys are currently looking at us and Aberdeen as competition for European places, you’ve literally got nothing to worry about and should I’m theory go from strength to strength. 

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1 hour ago, Widge said:

I mean you guys are currently looking at us and Aberdeen as competition for European places, you’ve literally got nothing to worry about and should I’m theory go from strength to strength. 

The general sentiment in the autumn was that if we could get through a dreadful injury crisis and the demands of playing twice a week for a protracted period of time while staying in touch with the pack by Christmas  then we should be able to pull clear once those issues alleviate. We’re now one point behind Aberdeen who play Rangers on Tuesday and we only missing five players through injury

I’d  have taken that 

 

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10 hours ago, AJF said:

I’m not sure there will be too much interest from anyone to pay a decent fee for Shankland. I think his failed move to Belgium off the back off performances in the SPFL will put people off.

His experience in Belgium wasn’t a success but as failures go it wasn’t that bad

he was a first team regular and joint top scorer

he didn’t score many for Beerschot but then again nobody else was able to score many for Beerschot either

 Shankland wasn’t the solution but he probably wasn’t the problem either 

 

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