Hoose Rice Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: Why non-Hearts fans can't see that once a player decides he doesn't want to be at Hearts we don't have to want him at the club is baffling. Hearts didn't sign him on a pre-contract, so yes. Aye they did. Then he left at the end of the window instead. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Aye they did. Then he left at the end of the window instead. He wasn't available to us on a pre-contract. He would have been out of contract though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 38 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: He wasn't available to us on a pre-contract. He would have been out of contract though. He was available on a pre-contract. Just because a player is under 24 doesn’t mean they can’t be signed on a Bosman, which is what Hearts did with Souttar. It just means you have to pay more for him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, G51 said: He was available on a pre-contract. Just because a player is under 24 doesn’t mean they can’t be signed on a Bosman, which is what Hearts did with Souttar. It just means you have to pay more for him. Are people just being wilfully thick or is it me? Souttar was out of contract at end of 2015/16, correct. Could we have signed him at the end of that season, yes. Did we? No, we agreed a transfer fee with Dundee United in January. Had he signed a pre-contract agreement with us prior to the deal? No. You can't sign under 24 year olds on a pre-contract agreement, because you have to agree compensation with the club, or through a tribunal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: Cool, well you're wrong. He couldn't agree a pre-contract with us even if we'd wanted to, as he was under 24. So any transfer was subject to a compensation payment. We bid for him in the January, admittedly at a pretty low price plus a sell-on, which United accepted. Ok . I concede. I only hope Hearts have their business head on and sort out a sell on clause with the rangers after his next move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said: Ok . I concede. I only hope Hearts have their business head on and sort out a sell on clause with the rangers after his next move. I don't see why Rangers would agree to one unless they're desperate to get him in January 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: Are people just being wilfully thick or is it me? Souttar was out of contract at end of 2015/16, correct. Could we have signed him at the end of that season, yes. Did we? No, we agreed a transfer fee with Dundee United in January. Had he signed a pre-contract agreement with us prior to the deal? No. You can't sign under 24 year olds on a pre-contract agreement, because you have to agree compensation with the club, or through a tribunal. You can though. We signed Lewis Ferguson when he was out of contract and the compensation wasn’t agreed until well into his time with us. saying that he may have signed after his contract expired. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, Dons_1988 said: You can though. We signed Lewis Ferguson when he was out of contract and the compensation wasn’t agreed until well into his time with us. saying that he may have signed after his contract expired. I know you can sign folk under freedom of contract without having agreed compensation, then let a tribunal sort it. I'm pretty sure you can't sign a pre-contract with them. I know for certain we didn't sign a pre-contract with Souttar, cause we didn't need to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Having done a bit of checking, I will correct myself - you can indeed sign an u24 on a pre-contract. Doesn't change the fact we hadn't with Souttar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wonder Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 45 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: Having done a bit of checking, I will correct myself - you can indeed sign an u24 on a pre-contract. Doesn't change the fact we hadn't with Souttar Aye Souttar was a straight transfer for a low fee as his contract was winding down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Can someone send a nurse round to Hoos.net Rice’s house? The guy is clearly in a bad way. Sensational stuff though. Might have to pop on to a Hibs thread and see if his chronic da patter is par for the course, or if he just shits the bed when he’s on Hearts threads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 19 minutes ago, G51 said: So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021? Are you just at the wind-up here, in which case fair play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 20 minutes ago, G51 said: So what’s the difference between Hearts buying Souttar from DUFC for a low fee due to his contract status in 2016, and Rangers buying Souttar from Hearts for a low fee/for free due to his contract status in 2021? The differences are: 1) whether or not HMFC get financial recompense 2) Souttar was unpopular, played out of position and struggling badly at United. They weren’t overly bothered about keeping him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor1874 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 16 hours ago, Kyle Reese said: The differences are: 1) whether or not HMFC get financial recompense 2) Souttar was unpopular, played out of position and struggling badly at United. They weren’t overly bothered about keeping him. Another thing which people seem to overlook, is that Dundee United aren't a rival to Hearts, nor were they at the time. United were bottom and going down. As you say, United were happy to cash in on him and it was in his best interests to leave a sinking ship. Souttar leaving us on a free for Rangers has the potential to weaken us while strengthening a rival, purely out of self interest. Many will defend his motives which is fair enough, but its really not rocket science as to why that would leave a bitter taste in the mouth of us, the fans. Pre-contract very much are a part of football and sure, we've signed plenty ourselves. But context is key, and in this case, its very clear why Hearts supporters are not one bit happy with John Souttar. Also, comments about it being our fault for not negotiating a contract with him. I can only go on rumours I've read elsewhere, but if they're true, we pulled out all the stops to keep Souttar and were prepared to make him a substantial offer. But we can't match Rangers and Souttar knows that, thus pointing to one clear motive: Money. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Reese Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 47 minutes ago, Connor1874 said: Another thing which people seem to overlook, is that Dundee United aren't a rival to Hearts, nor were they at the time. United were bottom and going down. As you say, United were happy to cash in on him and it was in his best interests to leave a sinking ship. Souttar leaving us on a free for Rangers has the potential to weaken us while strengthening a rival, purely out of self interest. Many will defend his motives which is fair enough, but its really not rocket science as to why that would leave a bitter taste in the mouth of us, the fans. Pre-contract very much are a part of football and sure, we've signed plenty ourselves. But context is key, and in this case, its very clear why Hearts supporters are not one bit happy with John Souttar. Also, comments about it being our fault for not negotiating a contract with him. I can only go on rumours I've read elsewhere, but if they're true, we pulled out all the stops to keep Souttar and were prepared to make him a substantial offer. But we can't match Rangers and Souttar knows that, thus pointing to one clear motive: Money. Good post. A lot of points that some people are obtusely choosing to ignore there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Dundee United aren’t a rival to Hearts, but Rangers are? I’ve heard it all now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I don't think it's 100% about money tbf, he's much more likely to win things at Rangers and play in Europe. But it's certainly a massive factor obviously 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyzer0 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 17/01/2022 at 11:51, AJF said: There is no danger Rangers will be paying anywhere near that to bring him in this window. Presumably '1/2 million' means half a million, which is what Hearts are reported to be after for his January signature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, lennyzer0 said: Presumably '1/2 million' means half a million, which is what Hearts are reported to be after for his January signature. Ah, you're probably right! I read it as 1 or 2 million haha. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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