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OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-2021


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1 minute ago, woolf said:


😂😂 fkn outstanding

Come now. He’s obviously needed to let that out for a while. Let him get the tears out first. There’s no point in trying to educate the angry and frustrated. 🤗 

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9 minutes ago, AJF said:

That’s fair. I’m of the opinion that debate is for another time and place, however I’m not sure why the previous financial peril (and recovery) of Hearts would materially change anyone’s opinion on whether relying on benefactor donations should be viewed entirely different from relying on investor cash injections?

It’s also been said that the money provided to Rangers will need to be repaid, but, as far as I am led to believe, the majority of the shortfall is made up from share issues or loans from investors that have little intention of calling them in - they’ll be converted to shares.

Again to give a really serious answer it’s because the majority of people think that if Hearts really needed it then their benefactors would clear their debts and also if Hearts (pre-being fan owned) came out and said something along the lines of “we really need to pull back a bit and live within our means even if it means fighting relegation for a few years” then you feel their fans would accept that. The fans at Ibrox not so much.

I know he has moved on now but when Dave King was a big investor in the old company at Ibrox but couldn’t step up (along with guys like Park etc) to help keep that company running and then magically becomes the chairman of the new company it’s hard to really put any trust or faith that these guys would actually put their money where their mouth is when the shit hits the fan.

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That’s fair. I’m of the opinion that debate is for another time and place, however I’m not sure why the previous financial peril (and recovery) of Hearts would materially change anyone’s opinion on whether relying on benefactor donations should be viewed entirely different from relying on investor cash injections?
It’s also been said that the money provided to Rangers will need to be repaid, but, as far as I am led to believe, the majority of the shortfall is made up from share issues or loans from investors that have little intention of calling them in - they’ll be converted to shares.

It’s the difference between “little intention” and “no option”
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55 minutes ago, Snifter Pee Rot said:

 

You should be totally ashamed of that list of the stiffed by HOMFC. Small clubs, small traders, CHARITIES all who got zero as unsecured creditors. Just the three cups to hand back. 

 

Farmer stiffed nobody except in your little maroon pumpkin heed. Any restructuring was agreed and above board. No admin and no cva. 

Hahahahahahaha.

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55 minutes ago, AJF said:

That’s fair. I’m of the opinion that debate is for another time and place, however I’m not sure why the previous financial peril (and recovery) of Hearts would materially change anyone’s opinion on whether relying on benefactor donations should be viewed entirely different from relying on investor cash injections?

It’s also been said that the money provided to Rangers will need to be repaid, but, as far as I am led to believe, the majority of the shortfall is made up from share issues or loans from investors that have little intention of calling them in - they’ll be converted to shares.

The past season aside, the benefactors have been giving money for projects outwith the norm. New stand, stadium upgrades, covering charity sponsorship deals. Our turnover,  and relevant spend isn't reliant on it. This year, we've been lucky to have people available covering the cost of covid, relegation and our legal battles. I say lucky, it's not, we knew that'd be the case and budgeted accordingly.

Going forward our turnover will be back to normal and any money from the benefactors will be additional funds. Hence we aren't reliant on them, if they pull the plug we still have normal income plus FoH revenue and we'd live within our means. We aren't chasing something stupid and spending money we don't have and we aren't making losses despite the injection of cash.

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Maybe he could also pay some of the millions that Hibs and Farmer ripped off the tax payer for, when Farmer told Lloyds that Hibs couldn’t afford the mortgage on their properties, and agreed a 30p in the pound deal? Lloyds being tax payer owned at the time. Or maybe you could just get the f**k over it, and stop pretending Hibs are some kind of morally upstanding entity?


You’ve got it all wrong Hibs came to a voluntary agreement with their creditor

Hearts had a CVA which is a totally different concept

Apparently
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1 hour ago, Snifter Pee Rot said:

 

You should be totally ashamed of that list of the stiffed by HOMFC. Small clubs, small traders, CHARITIES all who got zero as unsecured creditors. Just the three tainted cups to hand back. 

 

Farmer stiffed nobody except in your little maroon pumpkin heed. Any restructuring was agreed and above board. No admin and no cva. 
 


FTFY👍

Edited by Gorgie greatness
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2 hours ago, Snifter Pee Rot said:

 

You should be totally ashamed of that list of the stiffed by HOMFC. Small clubs, small traders, CHARITIES all who got zero as unsecured creditors. Just the three cups to hand back. 

 

Farmer stiffed nobody except in your little maroon pumpkin heed. Any restructuring was agreed and above board. No admin and no cva. 

🤣

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3 hours ago, Snifter Pee Rot said:

Must be nice having a rich guy pumping in free millions every year. Maybe Mr Anderson should pay some of the £15m that Ukio Bankas were owed from 2013? Where was he then? No pyramid scheme Bitcoin and inflated Tesla stock to ride on at BG?

Dear Mr Gustas.....................

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2 hours ago, Sortmeout said:

Again to give a really serious answer it’s because the majority of people think that if Hearts really needed it then their benefactors would clear their debts and also if Hearts (pre-being fan owned) came out and said something along the lines of “we really need to pull back a bit and live within our means even if it means fighting relegation for a few years” then you feel their fans would accept that. The fans at Ibrox not so much.

I know he has moved on now but when Dave King was a big investor in the old company at Ibrox but couldn’t step up (along with guys like Park etc) to help keep that company running and then magically becomes the chairman of the new company it’s hard to really put any trust or faith that these guys would actually put their money where their mouth is when the shit hits the fan.

I feel I need to point out though that the situations between Hearts and Rangers were in no way comparable though. It simply was not possible for any Rangers Supporters Group to do anything.

As far as I can recall and see from researching, the FoH offered to pay £2.5m towards debts of £30m. They were reliant on a wealthy fan putting this up with an agreement to pay them back over X amount of years. As the majority of Hearts’ debt sat with the Lithuanian Banks, their CVA was entirely at their mercy. Thankfully they agreed to the CVA (or rather abstained) and eventually agreed to take a fraction of what they were owed.

Rangers on the other hand, owed millions to HMRC. The wee tax case involving Craig Whyte’s refusal to hand over PAYE liability as well as The Big Tax Case looming over the club meant there was never any prospect of a CVA being agreed and a tax case running into tens of millions of pounds on the horizon meant the ability to attract a wealthy fan to front up the funds was severely hamstrung.

1 hour ago, Tony Wonder said:

The past season aside, the benefactors have been giving money for projects outwith the norm. New stand, stadium upgrades, covering charity sponsorship deals. Our turnover,  and relevant spend isn't reliant on it. This year, we've been lucky to have people available covering the cost of covid, relegation and our legal battles. I say lucky, it's not, we knew that'd be the case and budgeted accordingly.

Going forward our turnover will be back to normal and any money from the benefactors will be additional funds. Hence we aren't reliant on them, if they pull the plug we still have normal income plus FoH revenue and we'd live within our means. We aren't chasing something stupid and spending money we don't have and we aren't making losses despite the injection of cash.

And that’s fair enough. I never knew the donations were earmarked for those purposes.

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21 minutes ago, AJF said:

I feel I need to point out though that the situations between Hearts and Rangers were in no way comparable though. It simply was not possible for any Rangers Supporters Group to do anything.

As far as I can recall and see from researching, the FoH offered to pay £2.5m towards debts of £30m. They were reliant on a wealthy fan putting this up with an agreement to pay them back over X amount of years. As the majority of Hearts’ debt sat with the Lithuanian Banks, their CVA was entirely at their mercy. Thankfully they agreed to the CVA (or rather abstained) and eventually agreed to take a fraction of what they were owed.

Rangers on the other hand, owed millions to HMRC. The wee tax case involving Craig Whyte’s refusal to hand over PAYE liability as well as The Big Tax Case looming over the club meant there was never any prospect of a CVA being agreed and a tax case running into tens of millions of pounds on the horizon meant the ability to attract a wealthy fan to front up the funds was severely hamstrung.

And that’s fair enough. I never knew the donations were earmarked for those purposes.

There’s also the side letters thing.

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8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

What this forum needs is dedicated thread to cover discussion of Rangers previous financial misadventures.

That way people that give a toss about the finer details could leave the rest of us to concentrate on objectively more important matters in Gorgie

I did try and avoid it to be fair, I specifically said I felt it was a debate for another time and place.

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1 minute ago, AJF said:

I did try and avoid it to be fair, I specifically said I felt it was a debate for another time and place.

It gave the wee unstable Hibs guy a chance to greet his eyes out, so it wasn’t all that bad.

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4 minutes ago, Connor1874 said:

What a beautiful last couple of pages to read in work. 

If you place your ear to the screen, you can actually hear the moment when the wee elastic band in his head snaps.

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