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OFFICIAL HEARTS JUGGERNAUT THREAD 2020-2021


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18 hours ago, Jimi Shandrix said:

They were definitely top.

Correct - McCormack was sacked on February 9th 1998, when Dundee were five points clear of Raith. They also sacked Jocky Scott while top on March 2010. Another example that comes to mind is Ross County sacking Dick Campbell while top of the then Second Division.

I'm not sure how pertinent any of these examples are to Hearts as in both Dundee cases it was in response to a downturn in form that put the title in doubt and trying to arrest the slide - worked with sacking McCormack and replacing him with Scott, didn't with Scott and replacing him with Gordon Chisholm (:lol:) - while with County and Campbell it was only October and I think there was a realisation that early that he wasn't going to be a long term option, which wasn't entirely based on results.or performances.

In Hearts' case the league is obviously being won at a canter regardless but any concerns are entirely around results and performances, especially having just overseen the worst result in the club's history. If Neilson is going to be sacked then now is the time to do it when the league is already won and even Cathro would get Hearts over the line from this position.

I guess the question is, while there's no risk to being promoted this season, based on Neilson's previous spell in the top flight you should have every confidence of comfortably getting back into the top six. He does still need a bigger rebuild than the last time and obviously he's not doing much to inspire confidence in this spell so maybe he won't perform as well, but given this board's track record is the risk of appointing another dud who contrives to put you in another relegation battle worth the potential rewards of a manager who is less predictable and frustrating?

Generally I hate the 'but who would you appoint' argument against sacking managers as they should be judged on their own merits, but given that Neilson is the only Hearts manager to finish in the top four in the last 9 years does that mean he still has some merit?

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the Paisley tramps have been swinging their baws about top4/6 since august, they failed & the rest is self inflicted, in fact we lent them a shite keeper who let 3 in & therefore I’m in need of a comfort blanket so f**k it technically we relegated them to the bottom 6


Jesus Christ 🤣
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52 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

 

I guess the question is, while there's no risk to being promoted this season, based on Neilson's previous spell in the top flight you should have every confidence of comfortably getting back into the top six. He does still need a bigger rebuild than the last time and obviously he's not doing much to inspire confidence in this spell so maybe he won't perform as well, but given this board's track record is the risk of appointing another dud who contrives to put you in another relegation battle worth the potential rewards of a manager who is less predictable and frustrating?

Generally I hate the 'but who would you appoint' argument against sacking managers as they should be judged on their own merits, but given that Neilson is the only Hearts manager to finish in the top four in the last 9 years does that mean he still has some merit?

It's beyond how he might perform next season. The fans just don't want him in now.  Discontent was emerging over the last two months, yes not getting beat, but doing the bare minimum to not get beat by what I'd argue is as poor a standard of championship football there has ever been, that some of us saw a Brora result coming.

As I said earlier, it's a long summer until we play our first premiership fixture. Those fixtures are the markers to measure against. We could literally win 9-0(which we won't) on Saturday and against any other championship team and it would only paper over the cracks with a lot of fans. Fans are only going to get more pissed off the longer things continue.

If we were getting the Neilson that left us in the first instance, it would probably have been fine. The problem is that Neilson has totally regressed as a manager. In the beginning his football was very fluid, but one season in the top flight and another in England seems to have moulded him into a risk averse zealot that plays deep defensive football and makes his teams incredibly easy to play against.

Neilson was a good manager, but he has shown little sign of adapting from his turgid style of football that got Dundee United over the line in arguably a tougher division. A combination of that and Budge going against her 'give manager time' stick with Stendel under mitigating circumstances(after taking 6 weeks to appoint him in the middle of the season I might add), blinked and signed another fucking Craig Levein type manager. The less input she has the better.

Edited by the jambo-rocker
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1 hour ago, the jambo-rocker said:

It's beyond how he might perform next season. The fans just don't want him in now.  Discontent was emerging over the last two months, yes not getting beat, but doing the bare minimum to not get beat by what I'd argue is as poor a standard of championship football there has ever been, that some of us saw a Brora result coming.

As I said earlier, it's a long summer until we play our first premiership fixture. Those fixtures are the markers to measure against. We could literally win 9-0(which we won't) on Saturday and against any other championship team and it would only paper over the cracks with a lot of fans. Fans are only going to get more pissed off the longer things continue.

If we were getting the Neilson that left us in the first instance, it would probably have been fine. The problem is that Neilson has totally regressed as a manager. In the beginning his football was very fluid, but one season in the top flight and another in England seems to have moulded him into a risk averse zealot that plays deep defensive football and makes his teams incredibly easy to play against.

Neilson was a good manager, but he has shown little sign of adapting from his turgid style of football that got Dundee United over the line in arguably a tougher division. A combination of that and Budge going against her 'give manager time' stick with Stendel under mitigating circumstances(after taking 6 weeks to appoint him in the middle of the season I might add), blinked and signed another fucking Craig Levein type manager. The less input she has the better.

That saved me a lot of typing. This exactly is the issue.

At this precise moment, the spectre of Alex Neil is not helping either. From a fan POV (and I'm not saying that Neil is necessarily even slightly interested in Scottish football's least attractive job), the link up of Neil and Savage, and Neil's proven track record up here, makes for a ready made replacement for Neilson.

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3 minutes ago, lennyzer0 said:

That saved me a lot of typing. This exactly is the issue.

At this precise moment, the spectre of Alex Neil is not helping either. From a fan POV (and I'm not saying that Neil is necessarily even slightly interested in Scottish football's least attractive job), the link up of Neil and Savage, and Neil's proven track record up here, makes for a ready made replacement for Neilson.

Wouldn't disagree at all. For once, I'd like to see some ruthlessness from the board and make something like this happen. We've been too powderpuff from top to bottom for too long and an appointment like that would be a good immediate starting point at changing that.

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3 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Correct - McCormack was sacked on February 9th 1998, when Dundee were five points clear of Raith. They also sacked Jocky Scott while top on March 2010. Another example that comes to mind is Ross County sacking Dick Campbell while top of the then Second Division.

I'm not sure how pertinent any of these examples are to Hearts as in both Dundee cases it was in response to a downturn in form that put the title in doubt and trying to arrest the slide - worked with sacking McCormack and replacing him with Scott, didn't with Scott and replacing him with Gordon Chisholm (:lol:) - while with County and Campbell it was only October and I think there was a realisation that early that he wasn't going to be a long term option, which wasn't entirely based on results.or performances.

In Hearts' case the league is obviously being won at a canter regardless but any concerns are entirely around results and performances, especially having just overseen the worst result in the club's history. If Neilson is going to be sacked then now is the time to do it when the league is already won and even Cathro would get Hearts over the line from this position.

I guess the question is, while there's no risk to being promoted this season, based on Neilson's previous spell in the top flight you should have every confidence of comfortably getting back into the top six. He does still need a bigger rebuild than the last time and obviously he's not doing much to inspire confidence in this spell so maybe he won't perform as well, but given this board's track record is the risk of appointing another dud who contrives to put you in another relegation battle worth the potential rewards of a manager who is less predictable and frustrating?

Generally I hate the 'but who would you appoint' argument against sacking managers as they should be judged on their own merits, but given that Neilson is the only Hearts manager to finish in the top four in the last 9 years does that mean he still has some merit?

I would say all good pertinent points.  I'd actually have every confidence that we'd be comfortably top 6 with Neilson in charge next season, despite his limitations, because dull, risk averse football works perfectly up there.  

The overriding problem though is he's lost the fans completely, and a competent 4th place finish for a fan base where a large portion think challenging for the league is just a question of having the confidence to attack at Celtic Park is never going to be enough. And there's zero chance of him wildly exceeding expectations.

And truth be told, getting hounded off a non-league team is a sacking offence on it's own

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13 hours ago, Gorgie greatness said:

You mean to say I’ve been getting machine gunned all day & all I had to say was but but but were in a higher league than Brora! Are you 12 yo ffs! 
 

the Paisley tramps have been swinging their baws about top4/6 since august, they failed & the rest is self inflicted, in fact we lent them a shite keeper who let 3 in & therefore I’m in need of a comfort blanket so f**k it technically we relegated them to the bottom 6 😏

So by your own very candid admission, Hearts biggest achievement in the last 12 months is St. Mirren's failure to achieve something?

'Gorgie greatness' indeed. What a fucking diddy! :lol: 

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2 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

So by your own very candid admission, Hearts biggest achievement in the last 12 months is St. Mirren's failure to achieve something?

'Gorgie greatness' indeed. What a fucking diddy! :lol: 

I know you know I wrote that in jest. Your pretending I said your season long fantasy of top 4/6 failure is relevant to me.  I stated factual information your an established bottom 6 dug shite also ran. 
 

Im certain this time last year you wrote “championship wi your shite” yet here you are! Who’s relevant now 😘

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19 hours ago, Gorgie greatness said:

the Paisley tramps have been swinging their baws about top4/6 since august, they failed & the rest is self inflicted, in fact we lent them a shite keeper who let 3 in & therefore I’m in need of a comfort blanket so f**k it technically we relegated them to the bottom 6 😏

He saved a penalty in one game and was beaten by a handball in another. Was in no way to blame for those three defeats.

Oh, and you don't get "relegated" to the bottom 6. Or demoted, ejected or whatever else you moaning c***s call it.

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2 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

He saved a penalty in one game and was beaten by a handball in another. Was in no way to blame for those three defeats.

Oh, and you don't get "relegated" to the bottom 6. Or demoted, ejected or whatever else you moaning c***s call it.

You could just start your own bottom 6 dug shite thread!

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Robbie Neilson either has some guts or no brains for saying this surely.

image.png.888aae8e935c3b17fcceab7f6a7378e2.png

If McPake said that about us, I'd be waiting outside Dens to fling rocks at his head. Your team are coming off the worst results in their history, I think the fans have a right to be angry.

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