Greenmachine Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Shanner said: In so far as every cup date is a date when the league could have been played then it does contribute but there are still lots of midweek slots that could have been used and weren't. We all know that there's a constituency of folk that are grade obsessed and want rid of the SJC on that basis alone who's tactic appears to be assigning all of the world's ills to the competition when in reality there's plenty of space for all the competitions in the floodlight age if they're managed competently. Why should clubs who don’t play in a voluntary competition be penalised by having fixtures cancelled for clubs who opt in? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejackdaw Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: Why should clubs who don’t play in a voluntary competition be penalised by having fixtures cancelled for clubs who opt in? I really can't for the life of me work out why some people fail to recognise that the Scottish junior cup has had its day . 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: Why should clubs who don’t play in a voluntary competition be penalised by having fixtures cancelled for clubs who opt in? Because the majority of clubs voted for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Thejackdaw said: I really can't for the life of me work out why some people fail to recognise that the Scottish junior cup has had its day . I t will have had it's day when clubs no longer volunteer to enter it. But at the moment, its final attracts 4½K yet the South Challenge Cup only 799 (2022 finals). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 Am I wrong in thinking that the teams that don't play in the SJFA Cup and do not have licences play in the Starthclyde Demolition Cup? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig fae the Vale Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said: Am I wrong in thinking that the teams that don't play in the SJFA Cup and do not have licences play in the Starthclyde Demolition Cup? Correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: Why should clubs who don’t play in a voluntary competition be penalised by having fixtures cancelled for clubs who opt in? This has been done to death a bit but here goes for some long winded pish from me. The competition still generates excellent crowds and income for the participants. On that basis it seems counter-progressive to deny clubs money and fans something they still want to see. The limited inconvenience it causes to the clubs who don't want to be involved seems to be the only legitimate argument against it but to me it's not even close to being as disruptive as some people argue. Why cut off your nose to spite your face? And why should participant clubs tolerate non participants curtailing their income? It seems that for a lot of people the word "Junior" is all that is needed to fling their financial sense and rationality out of the window. We'll no doubt get all the lazy old soundbites about the competition being devalued or no longer relevant which are completely accurate but are completely beside the point. The competition doesn't need to be what is was in its heyday, it just needs to be worthwhile enough from a financial point of view in the present, which it demonstrably is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesel1994 Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said: Am I wrong in thinking that the teams that don't play in the SJFA Cup and do not have licences play in the Starthclyde Demolition Cup? Is this competition voluntary? I know it makes sense to enter it to get access to the SFA Cup - but the dates set aside for Junior Cup would be used by this cup instead - one or the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, theesel1994 said: Is this competition voluntary? I know it makes sense to enter it to get access to the SFA Cup - but the dates set aside for Junior Cup would be used by this cup instead - one or the other. The way the South & East do it is that it gets paired with the Scottish Cup. That way just about everyone has a match on the first/second round date unless there's byes. Causing minimal league disruption. Because the Strathclyde is paired up with the Junior Cup it means the minority of Scottish Cup who are aren't Junior teams get left idle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: The way the South & East do it is that it gets paired with the Scottish Cup. That way just about everyone has a match on the first/second round date unless there's byes. Causing minimal league disruption. Because the Strathclyde is paired up with the Junior Cup it means the minority of Scottish Cup who are aren't Junior teams get left idle Excellent point. There's the solution right there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 5 hours ago, bobbydazzler said: "a full non national non league cup" that you can decide to play in IF you want to or not. so what would happen if every team who played in the Scottish Cup said no to this? Sorry I didn't realize i had to make it clear as I expected everyone to know that if you have your SFA license you are allowed to play in the Scottish cup so those teams who have their license can choose to play ALSO in the Non League national cup if there was a non league national cup OR OPT OUT OF IT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 The first round of the Junior Cup was paired with the Scottish/Strathclyde Cups on 27 August, which was sensible as those SJFA clubs playing in the Scottish Cup got a bye in the Junior Cup. The same could've been done for the next round (with Auchinleck, Cumnock, and Darvel then playing their league match midweek) but the SJFA probably don't want to go up against the Scottish Cup each time. No doubt things will improve next season - I'm sure Kennie is sensible enough to schedule some midweek games early on if the clubs are now allowing him to, hopefully the bare minimum amount of teams are left idle on SCC R1 weekend (it was five including Auchinleck), plus it's also unlikely a weekend will be lost due to a head of state death... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzler Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 41 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: Sorry I didn't realize i had to make it clear as I expected everyone to know that if you have your SFA license you are allowed to play in the Scottish cup so those teams who have their license can choose to play ALSO in the Non League national cup if there was a non league national cup OR OPT OUT OF IT yes i understood that, but what IF all the clubs decide to OPT OUT? makes a farce of the whole cup surely? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 hours ago, jimbaxters said: Disagree pal. It's not solely to blame and is in fact some way down the list of reasons why but it's a definite contributory factor. Saturday fixtures for the SJFA and/or Strathclyde Cups should be avoided. Id scrap the junior cup tomorrow because the mess it makes with fixtures but its clear that this is a minority view amongst those who long for the junior days etc. so why not play the junior cup first three rounds around the time of pre-season? Middle of July, gets three rounds out the way and then the next round can go along with the first round of the Scottish Cup? This would work if the first two rounds were regionalised and played on a sat/wed in the height of summer with little to compete against it. Then you could end the pre-season with an all in non regionalised third round for clubs to play on a saturday in late july. This means in turn that clubs who may not be the strongest financially dont run the risk of massive bus and travel costs but still get to compete in the cup etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 6 hours ago, jimbaxters said: I'm not ignoring anything. I try to discern the relevant points. You're adding another cup. Using Talbot as an example. They play in;- William Hill Scottish Cup South Challenge Cup WoSFL League Cup SJFA Cup 30 match league You are suggesting that despite the fixture hell they currently have they should play William Hill Scottish Cup South Challenge Cup WoSFL League Cup SJFA Cup Another cup 30 match league A "full Non National Cup" (if they want) That'll work Nope I said with more detail 1. I would love a Full Non national non league Cup, (tell me any football fan who wouldn't want it) but I don't believe it will happen as no apatite for it and costs a lot unless a big sponsor and regionalized, so I'm not counting it in the list so in reality 'No 1' doesn't count as there isn't one 2. South Challenge Cup - (to see whose the best in the south of Scotland) 3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup, - (to see who is the best in their region) 4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues - (another local cup for each association - Number 4 is optional but I think every association would find a sponsor willing to pay money for it). The Scottish cup is a given for licensed teams but if those licensed teams plan to play in the National non league cup then they have no complaints about fixture congestion and meaning the same teams who play in the junior cup, stop moaning about fixture congestion or behind in games Number 4 is optional but I think every association would find a sponsor willing to pay money for it 5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early? - (this can be decided as it wouldn't effect fixture lists of teams whose season is finishing early) as the Strathclyde cup is for teams who don't have Junior membership, I think? so they can have gapes to fill the gap the juniors dates take up 6. Definitely No Junior Cup Its only teams who are licensed who play in the Scottish cup So all other clubs can utilize the date granted for the Scottish cup to play south challenge or a league match or even (if it were running a National non league cup) for example. League matches are standard so that's agiven so don't know why you added that into the debate A WOSFL cup which I think everyone would agree on. And whatever is chosen, the top teams always have games to catch up on which is normal every season and the season would start a week or two weeks early or utilize as many midweeks dates until lights fade 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, bobbydazzler said: yes i understood that, but what IF all the clubs decide to OPT OUT? makes a farce of the whole cup surely? I just shook my head there Of course it would be compulsory if there was a national non-league cup so every club tier 5 and below would be in the Scottish non league cup as it would be part of the SFA group and not outwith like the junior cup. The only teams that are given a choice are teams participating in the Main SFA Cup, they are the ONLY ones who would be allowed to either play in the non-league cup or stay out of it Edited March 29, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 (edited) There are loads of available dates to fit in all the cups. Talbot might have been in the Junior Cup, but went out fairly early, their backlog has been caused by Scottish Cup and South Challenge Cup ties putting games off. Add to that a run in the WOSFL Cup which has stopped them playing league games on those dates too, and some postponements and an abandoned game too. Kilwinning have had runs in all 3 cups they were in, and like Talbot now face 4 games in 8 days. I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I can't understand why games that were postponed early in the season were left for months to be rearranged. E.g. we were due to play at the Buffs on 16th September but they were playing in the Scottish Cup on the Saturday. We now go there next week. There's no reason imo why that couldn't have been played on the following Wednesday, or very soon after the original date. Afaik it has already been discussed at league meetings that there will be 2 rounds of midweek games at the start of next season. Edited March 29, 2023 by peasy23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sox Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 The SJFA bank balance will be shared among member clubs when it folds, defo worth hanging around for a bit yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 11 hours ago, Johnny Sox said: The SJFA bank balance will be shared among member clubs when it folds, defo worth hanging around for a bit yet. Maybe I'm wrong but I read somewhere last year that the Junior FA are allowing teams outwith the original junior teams to join the junior cup, thus the pot will be shortened if the Junior FA demise. Also is the membership not open, so if a team does not apply one year for membership, can they not rejoin the following year? if this is true, what would stop all teams from joining if there was a rumour the Junior FA was about to finish? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 15 hours ago, peasy23 said: Afaik it has already been discussed at league meetings that there will be 2 rounds of midweek games at the start of next season. If that's true two is not enough. I would have 4 at least. Two in August, at least one in September and one in October 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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