WoSFL Premier Division thread

[jimbaxters]

No doubt it's the more difficult of the two to win but it's difficult to buy that it's all that prestigious given that there's no sponsor.

[FairWeatherFan]

Think the rule change only happened this season.

The reason why there wasn't any prize money is surprisingly enough becaue I doubt there's been much cash to go round. It's rarely had a sponsor. Even last year's final had under a 1000 if I remember right. Any money made in the Final after expenses would go into covering the cost of travel expenses in the earlier rounds.

The only time the cup had any money was the first two seasons after replacing the Qualifying Cup. When the SFA were kicking in £20k.

If anyone wants to look at the rules.

http://www.southchallengecup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/competition-Guidance.pdf

http://www.southchallengecup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/competition-regulations.pdf

The bit about gate receipts and final.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Pollok were barred fae it, Clydebank and Kilwinning (at least wan will be back in it next year) wouldn’t bet again others when the treasurers clock oan tae where they make money. 

I ken South cup is mandatory doesnae mean teams will nae play shadow sides as ye get a hat and a balloon fur winnin it. 
 

4 later stage games in the Scottish pay a teams wages four a season like Yoker.

 

should be wan national tournament to replace them aw and 1 regional cup. 
 

Maybe a league cup if ye go out the other wan in the first 2 roons. 

Pollok, Clydebank and Kilwinning, only know themselves what is best for them.  They have tasted the SFA Cup and realized the potential of money they can earn from doing well and might realize its worth their while not to enter the junior cup next year to concentrate on the SFA Cup and their leagues, only they can tell.  Whether your for the junior cup or not, it not compulsory and the WOSFL and the EOSFL have allocated dates for the junior cup, but lets make things clear the WOSFL do not need to make allocation and imagine if they are told NOT to allocate dates by the powers above then that's what would happen.  Also if teams were playing shadow sides in the South challenge cup and full teams in the junior cup I think and expect the junior cup not to last long as pressure would be put that the shadow teams would be in the junior cup

 

You talking abut Yoker, I know teams this year who have last a lot of money from travelling far, paying £800 for transport and only getting £240/£250 towards their travelling and they had to do it a few rounds, So Yoker made money last year but there were others who didn't and defiantly others who didn't this year, so the comment that its lucrative, is not for all teams and some are hurt badly.
In the main SFA Cup, Darvel made alone, from round 4 and Round 5 via tv money and exit money - £95,260 and that's without including gate money from preliminary, Round 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  Pollok made from exiting the Scottish cup via tv money and exit money, £15,250  and again that's without including gate monies from preliminary, Round 1, 2 and 3, (i am unsure if Pollok received TV  money for the Tv 1st round game being cancelled), so would have or is more money to their pot this year

I don't believe there will be a national Non-league tournament in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware there is not enough appetite for it and in reality's, the South challenge cup is the Regional cup but as there is no Main Non-Scottish Cup, The South Challenge Cup is classed as the main tournament in the south with only 108 teams in the Scottish Junior cup and with 163 this year and the tournament is far superior and with harder teams involved.

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues

Edited March 27, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Ben10]

1 hour ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Pollok, Clydebank and Kilwinning, only know themselves what is best for them.  They have tasted the SFA Cup and realized the potential of money they can earn from doing well and might realize its worth their while not to enter the junior cup next year to concentrate on the SFA Cup and their leagues, only they can tell.  Whether your for the junior cup or not, it not compulsory and the WOSFL and the EOSFL have allocated dates for the junior cup, but lets make things clear the WOSFL do not need to make allocation and imagine if they are told NOT to allocate dates by the powers above then that's what would happen.  Also if teams were playing shadow sides in the South challenge cup and full teams in the junior cup I think and expect the junior cup not to last long as pressure would be put that the shadow teams would be in the junior cup

 

You talking abut Yoker, I know teams this year who have last a lot of money from travelling far, paying £800 for transport and only getting £240/£250 towards their travelling and they had to do it a few rounds, So Yoker made money last year but there were others who didn't and defiantly others who didn't this year, so the comment that its lucrative, is not for all teams and some are hurt badly.
In the main SFA Cup, Darvel made alone, from round 4 and Round 5 via tv money and exit money - £95,260 and that's without including gate money from preliminary, Round 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  Pollok made from exiting the Scottish cup via tv money and exit money, £15,250  and again that's without including gate monies from preliminary, Round 1, 2 and 3

I don't believe there will be a national Non-league tournament in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware there is not enough appetite for it and in reality's, the South challenge cup is the Regional cup but as there is no Main Non-Scottish Cup, The South Challenge Cup is classed as the main tournament in the south with only 108 teams in the Scottish Junior cup and with 163 this year and the tournament is far superior and with harder teams involved.

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues

They’d be mental wi the money oan offer no tae have a go at the junior cup. 
Like I said last four roons, Ye’d make money. 
A tie at Dalbeattie isnae gonnae fill the coffers unlike a geme v anyone of the top 10 in Ayrshire.

Talbot went oot v Cumnock and ye had wee Gall counting bodies the roon before. I’m willing tae bet talbot got mare fae the Scottish than they huv for reaching the semi o the south.
 
The regionalised draw in roons 1@2 means thurs a likelihood the minnows go oot early whereas ye live for the trips to a new grun. Penicuik V Muirkirk has a bit o mystique aboot ot fur the wee teams. 
 

South might weel be the favourite choice o tha league however it’s no got hawf the romance or the rewards of its junior counterpart. 
East Kilbride bigger lowland side brought 10 folk Tae Auchinleck. Mibee that’s why we got back in. point 14 oan yer mans sheet said any excess funds the region committee gets…mibee he’s wanting talbot in the final to swell the coffers. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ben10

[Ginaro]

40 minutes ago, Ben10 said:

They’d be mental wi the money oan offer no tae have a go at the junior cup. 
Like I said last four roons, Ye’d make money. 
A tie at Dalbeattie isnae gonnae fill the coffers unlike a geme v anyone of the top 10 in Ayrshire. 
The regionalised draw in roons 1@2 means thurs a likelihood the minnows go oot early whereas ye live for the trips to a new grun. Penicuik V Muirkirk has a bit o mystique aboot ot fur the wee teams. 

South might weel be the favourite choice o tha league however it’s no got hawf the romance or the rewards of its junior counterpart. 
East Kilbride bigger lowland side brought 10 folk Tae Auchinleck. Mibee that’s why we got back in. point 14 oan yer mans sheet said any excess funds the region committee gets…mibee he’s wanting talbot in the final to swell the coffers. 

Always find it weird this obsession with the money on offer for a handful of clubs at the business end of the tournament, while neglecting the other 100 clubs taking part.

You mention Muirkirk and trips with "mystique" - they played Forfar United last season, a 120 mile trip north where they won 7-0. Probably wasn't a huge amount of fans there - let's say 60 with half of those concessions. That's £270 at the gate, minus £65 for the ref = £205. Muirkirk's travel guarantee is £220 (+£110 from the SJFA) meaning Forfar United lose money on the gate. 

Under South Challenge Cup rules, Forfar would get £102.50 while Muirkirk receive £352.50 (£250 from the SCC)...

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ginaro

[Bestsinceslicebread]

3 hours ago, Ben10 said:

They’d be mental wi the money oan offer no tae have a go at the junior cup. 
Like I said last four roons, Ye’d make money. 
A tie at Dalbeattie isnae gonnae fill the coffers unlike a geme v anyone of the top 10 in Ayrshire.

Talbot went oot v Cumnock and ye had wee Gall counting bodies the roon before. I’m willing tae bet talbot got mare fae the Scottish than they huv for reaching the semi o the south.
 
The regionalised draw in roons 1@2 means thurs a likelihood the minnows go oot early whereas ye live for the trips to a new grun. Penicuik V Muirkirk has a bit o mystique aboot ot fur the wee teams. 
 

South might weel be the favourite choice o tha league however it’s no got hawf the romance or the rewards of its junior counterpart. 
East Kilbride bigger lowland side brought 10 folk Tae Auchinleck. Mibee that’s why we got back in. point 14 oan yer mans sheet said any excess funds the region committee gets…mibee he’s wanting talbot in the final to swell the coffers. 

I'm not for the junior cup but the reasons give for its defense is stupid. I gave you constructive comments and factual reasons and you've just dismissed them like a normal blinkered person would do. I've not lambasted the junior cup the way some have but its time in football is finishing as the concept of Junior football has done.  When you and me are deed, trust me, the youth coming through to play football, run football, run these teams committees and also become fans wont give a shit about junior, they will see it as just Scottish football and junior will be confined to the distant history that some old guy who is still alive will look through his old history books and see some junior results and this coming from a guy who loved playing junior football and trying to win the junior cup

Personally, i think you should try and be constructive in what your saying if your trying to promote the junior cup; all about the money that they can earn etc.. !. So basically your saying, teams in the junior cup round 1, 2 3 are just shafted, so you minnows, minnows can be shafted and because your gonna lose out and be out of pocket your gonna struggle more lolol
You are totally ignoring factual points.

We all have no say in the view of the following teams like Pollok, Clydebank, Kilwinning, Benburb, Irvine Meadow, Rutherglen Glencairn, Bonnyton Thistle, Drumchapel, every one of these teams made money from the SFA Cup this season, so really, its only they who decide if its worthwhile entering all competitions or jeopardize their Scottish Cup and league chances by entering the junior cup and some of those teams are junior orientated and they will work out if its worthwhile entering or not entering the junior cup.  Also include the teams who are about to gain their SFA licence will make a decision on entering or not entering, I'm sure.

Its fact, teams have paid £800 give or take £50 to travel long distance for first rounds ties and received £240/£260 towards traveling, now that's what I call shafted.
Then you throw romance into the cup, ffs for years the junior cup has been dwindling and that's even before the WOSFL started up.   What you cannot argue with, the South Challenge cup has over 50% more teams in it compared to the junior cup and the south challenge cup is way harder to win because the standard is so high.

 

The first muppet to red dot this is so my jealous stalker   pmsllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Edited March 27, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread
To Credit the first red dot lololol

[Bestsinceslicebread]

18 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Always find it weird this obsession with the money on offer for a handful of clubs at the business end of the tournament, while neglecting the other 100 clubs taking part.

You mention Muirkirk and trips with "mystique" - they played Forfar United last season, a 120 mile trip north where they won 7-0. Probably wasn't a huge amount of fans there - let's say 60 with half of those concessions. That's £270 at the gate, minus £65 for the ref = £205. Muirkirk's travel guarantee is £220 (+£110 from the SJFA) meaning Forfar United lose money on the gate. 

Under South Challenge Cup rules, Forfar would get £102.50 while Muirkirk receive £352.50 (£250 from the SCC)...

100% so true, that was part of my point I was putting up until after I saw your posts and either he doesn't know or he is that blinkered or he is totally ignoring it

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

7 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Pollok were barred fae it, Clydebank and Kilwinning (at least wan will be back in it next year) wouldn’t bet again others when the treasurers clock oan tae where they make money. 

 

Where did you hear about buffs re-entering the sjfa? Thats an interesting scoop?

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Always find it weird this obsession with the money on offer for a handful of clubs at the business end of the tournament, while neglecting the other 100 clubs taking part.

You mention Muirkirk and trips with "mystique" - they played Forfar United last season, a 120 mile trip north where they won 7-0. Probably wasn't a huge amount of fans there - let's say 60 with half of those concessions. That's £270 at the gate, minus £65 for the ref = £205. Muirkirk's travel guarantee is £220 (+£110 from the SJFA) meaning Forfar United lose money on the gate. 

Under South Challenge Cup rules, Forfar would get £102.50 while Muirkirk receive £352.50 (£250 from the SCC)...

Didn't the SJFA kick in £400 to everyone if they completed their fixtures this season? Had to stop the rot some how.

Forgot the couple of balls.

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by FairWeatherFan

[Thejackdaw]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Didn't the SJFA kick in £400 to everyone if they completed their fixtures this season? Had to stop the rot some how.

Forgot the couple of balls.

 

This is actually further testimony upon how far our greatest tournament  has fallen,  the begging bowl is out to actually compete In it .

[ibenji]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Where did you hear about buffs re-entering the sjfa? Thats an interesting scoop?

He made it up, Buffs have no intention of rejoining the Juniors. There was a reason they were the first club that  decided to breakaway from the SJFA

[PollokGang]

9 hours ago, Ben10 said:

Pollok were barred fae it, Clydebank and Kilwinning (at least wan will be back in it next year) wouldn’t bet again others when the treasurers clock oan tae where they make money. 

I ken South cup is mandatory doesnae mean teams will nae play shadow sides as ye get a hat and a balloon fur winnin it. 
 

4 later stage games in the Scottish pay a teams wages four a season like Yoker.

 

should be wan national tournament to replace them aw and 1 regional cup. 
 

Maybe a league cup if ye go out the other wan in the first 2 roons. 

Incorrect. Pollok were not banned from the 22/23 competition. Pollok left the disgraceful SJFA behind.

You only make a profit if you get to the final. That’s what 2/100 or something teams. Time for the competition to die gracefully before it becomes an East Ayrshire kick about cup. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

20 minutes ago, ibenji said:

He made it up, Buffs have no intention of rejoining the Juniors. There was a reason they were the first club that  decided to breakaway from the SJFA

Yeh i was a bit surprised. Given itd take a vote of the Bankies fans (hasnt been proposed, hasnt even been discussed) to pass it thats why i assumed Buffs from his quote. 

[Spyro]

Did Talbot not request a couple of midweeks off earlier on in the season? 

[andy25]

3 minutes ago, Spyro said:

Did Talbot not request a couple of midweeks off earlier on in the season? 

No.

[Lokloyal]

5 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Pollok, Clydebank and Kilwinning, only know themselves what is best for them.  They have tasted the SFA Cup and realized the potential of money they can earn from doing well and might realize its worth their while not to enter the junior cup next year to concentrate on the SFA Cup and their leagues, only they can tell.  Whether your for the junior cup or not, it not compulsory and the WOSFL and the EOSFL have allocated dates for the junior cup, but lets make things clear the WOSFL do not need to make allocation and imagine if they are told NOT to allocate dates by the powers above then that's what would happen.  Also if teams were playing shadow sides in the South challenge cup and full teams in the junior cup I think and expect the junior cup not to last long as pressure would be put that the shadow teams would be in the junior cup

 

You talking abut Yoker, I know teams this year who have last a lot of money from travelling far, paying £800 for transport and only getting £240/£250 towards their travelling and they had to do it a few rounds, So Yoker made money last year but there were others who didn't and defiantly others who didn't this year, so the comment that its lucrative, is not for all teams and some are hurt badly.
In the main SFA Cup, Darvel made alone, from round 4 and Round 5 via tv money and exit money - £95,260 and that's without including gate money from preliminary, Round 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  Pollok made from exiting the Scottish cup via tv money and exit money, £15,250  and again that's without including gate monies from preliminary, Round 1, 2 and 3, (i am unsure if Pollok received TV  money for the Tv 1st round game being cancelled), so would have or is more money to their pot this year

I don't believe there will be a national Non-league tournament in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware there is not enough appetite for it and in reality's, the South challenge cup is the Regional cup but as there is no Main Non-Scottish Cup, The South Challenge Cup is classed as the main tournament in the south with only 108 teams in the Scottish Junior cup and with 163 this year and the tournament is far superior and with harder teams involved.

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues

Lok got paid for the cancelled tv coverage too 

[glensmad]

5 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

.......lets make things clear the WOSFL do not need to make allocation and imagine if they are told NOT to allocate dates by the powers above then that's what would happen.

Incorrect.

WoSFL Constitution Rule B53 :-

"The Management Committee will make suitable and appropriate provision within their fixture schedule to accommodate the playing of the Scottish Junior Cup."

[Bestsinceslicebread]

24 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Incorrect.

WoSFL Constitution Rule B53 :-

"The Management Committee will make suitable and appropriate provision within their fixture schedule to accommodate the playing of the Scottish Junior Cup."

So no football association or governing body cannot change this, i.e SFA, SPFL etc.. ?  What happens if there were tons of postponements of junior ties, ie.  weather etc.. and means there wasn't enough Saturdays and midweeks dates left, would they take dates that are supposed to be for the WOSFL games or EOSFL games.  I genuinely do not understand why the junior cup is allocated space especially if ties are falling behind.   I have to admit the abuse the lad Kenny got, fixture guy was a bit over the top, especially such a poisoned chalice and to be fair, I got the impression he was for the junior cup or junior in general.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

38 minutes ago, Lokloyal said:

Lok got paid for the cancelled tv coverage too 

I never heard officially.
There was talk about it and to be fair I thought both teams should have been paid due to the timing of the cancellation.  Was it full money £1500 each?

[glensmad]

6 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

So no football association or governing body cannot change this, i.e SFA, SPFL etc.. ?  What happens if there were tons of postponements of junior ties, ie.  weather etc.. and means there wasn't enough Saturdays and midweeks dates left, would they take dates that are supposed to be for the WOSFL games or EOSFL games.  I genuinely do not understand why the junior cup is allocated space especially if ties are falling behind.   I have to admit the abuse the lad Kenny got, fixture guy was a bit over the top, especially such a poisoned chalice and to be fair, I got the impression he was for the junior cup or junior in general.

The SPFL are not a governing body with any say whatsoever in the affairs of the WoSFL. The Scottish FA approve the Constitution of the WoSFL and leave the Management Committee to apply the rules. The clubs voted to insert that clause into the rules at last year's AGM.