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57 minutes ago, BFTD said:

No, and I really don't know how you're getting that from what I said.

Think you're pretty safe from comedians having to continually look over their shoulders lest their joke be misinterpreted (wilfully or otherwise) by someone and potentially destroying their careers. It seems to go unnoticed, but anyone that the press has claimed has been "cancelled" seems to have done remarkably well out of it. Almost like it's bullshit hype designed to sell papers, generate retweets, and make money.

Fair enough. I read "I'm perfectly happy with them having to trek down to a shite comedy show to work out for themselves that they're having their time wasted." and took too much of a leap in interpretation.

I actually am not happy that the police go down to see for themselves, as that in itself can be intimidating. It represents the possibility of prosecution for saying the wrong thing or making the wrong joke. 

I understand that a lot of the times "cancel culture" is as you say, bullshit hype where people have done well out of it (see Robinson, Tommy and a host of similar grifters), but the presence of a whole host of folk who have merely been held to account and faced consequences doesn't mean that there isn't an increase in puritanical censoriousness and threats of livelihood being taken away for those who don't conform, or who voice opinions counter to what is accepted. Making it fairly normal for police to investigate jokes for being offensive is regressive. 

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On 22/06/2022 at 16:54, ICTChris said:

https://www.thecut.com/article/cancel-culture-high-school-teens.html

Really depressing article whichever way you look at it.  No-one comes out of this well.  I had previously thought that homeschooling was for nutcase fundamentalist yanks but reading this, I can see the attraction.

Excellent article and worth putting it back on this new page.

What a terrible time it is to be a young person, and it seems rehabilitation is not possible in such a toxic culture.

And it makes a very valid point that teenagers minds are not fully developed, this is exactly the time of their life to be making stupid mistakes.

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91 year old billionaire....

Take the whole fucking lot off him.

Someone that senile with that amount of money is dangerous.
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7 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Is it more normal ? I can't think of many more examples.

The police didn't investigate because someone reported being offended by a joke, they reported what they said was child pornography. That's a wild take IMO and that's what the police said too but they have to look into it  

So long as they then charge the complainant with wasting police time or similar, if it turns out to be a stack of fucking nonsense. 

6 hours ago, BFTD said:

It seems to go unnoticed, but anyone that the press has claimed has been "cancelled" seems to have done remarkably well out of it. Almost like it's bullshit hype designed to sell papers, generate retweets, and make money.

An argument that people with a high profile still have a high profile and so therefore canceling can't be an issue is circular and runs the very obvious risk of observation bias. 

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28 minutes ago, deej said:

That's not even in the top ten of Ecclestone gaffes, and as a high profile billionaire, he will be going precisely nowhere. 

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Lewis Hamilton trying to cancel old folk. "Why are we listening to older voices?"

I get that the three guys he is targeting (Jackie Stewart, Piquet and Ecclestone) have been outrageous but to then try to shut up all older people? 

One day, a 60 year old Hamilton might be the one being cancelled as he will be out of touch.

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Her name was brought up on an interview with Warner Bros as part of question, interviewer immediately asked to move to next question... The lady just doesn't exist
Tbf every chance she's in Hollywood Jail for crimes against screenwriting.
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9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

There are a small number of people who don't feel a connection with the gender they're assigned with at birth. What they do about that is up to them, and it's absurd that people are suddenly getting so concerned about such a rare thing that's occurred for millennia. Why are you bothered about it, for instance? Do you have a friend who's trying to work their way through it? Your question is like the gotcha ones politicians get these days, "Does a woman have a vagina, yes or no?". They usually rightfully answer that it's not as simple as that, and get castigated by the twitter hysterics.

What makes you think I'm bothered by it? It was a simple question. You don't have an answer that's fair enough. I don't have an answer to it either.

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The idea that JK Rowling, who is rich beyond her wildest dreams and has influence that nobody here could ever imagine, can be “cancelled” is fucking hilarious to be honest. 

What she’s feeling is people standing up to her for her views. Getting shredded online isn’t getting cancelled. Just log off and spend your vast fortune on something.

Cancel culture is when someone actually suffers as a result of holding or expressing views/opinions. A good example would be someone getting sacked for something they post on Twitter. Or someone downvoting one of my posts.

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8 hours ago, velo army said:

Fair enough. I read "I'm perfectly happy with them having to trek down to a shite comedy show to work out for themselves that they're having their time wasted." and took too much of a leap in interpretation.

I actually am not happy that the police go down to see for themselves, as that in itself can be intimidating. It represents the possibility of prosecution for saying the wrong thing or making the wrong joke. 

I understand that a lot of the times "cancel culture" is as you say, bullshit hype where people have done well out of it (see Robinson, Tommy and a host of similar grifters), but the presence of a whole host of folk who have merely been held to account and faced consequences doesn't mean that there isn't an increase in puritanical censoriousness and threats of livelihood being taken away for those who don't conform, or who voice opinions counter to what is accepted. Making it fairly normal for police to investigate jokes for being offensive is regressive. 

As Invergowrie Arab pointed out, Joe Lycett was investigated because somebody mentioned child pornography. I'm OK with the polis ending up down a few garden paths when an accusation like that has been thrown out and, if they were being honest, most of the people being investigated probably would be too, considering what happens when the bizzies routinely brush these things off.

Yer man Lycett's had a lovely publicity boost out of the story, will now have a slightly edgier image than bears scrutiny, and some coppers had to sit through one of his routines as punishment for anything bad they'd been up to that week. One of those rare stories where everyone does well, even the roaster who reported it in the first place, who gets to brag about doing something that made the papers.

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13 hours ago, velo army said:

I think the Jimmy Carr gypsy joke resulted in a polis complaint or two. There have been others lately, but I can't for the life of me remember who. What I'm seeing a lot is a culture where people aren't encouraged to take responsibility for their feelings or to engage in introspection. Sometimes the intention behind comedy is to shine a light on hypocrisy and double standards, so it behoves us to have a word with ourselves about what this offended reaction is within us, where it comes from and what we can do going forward.

The Jimmy Carr joke absolutely should have been referred to the police.

I think there are a lot of comedians and celebrities out there who refuse to take any responsibility or ownership of their own words or the consequences of them and hide behind pissweak defences of what is essentially pandering to populism.

Next time a trans kid is getting the shit kicked out of them they should really explain Ricky Gervais is being ironic 

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29 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

The Jimmy Carr joke absolutely should have been referred to the police.

I think there are a lot of comedians and celebrities out there who refuse to take any responsibility or ownership of their own words or the consequences of them and hide behind pissweak defences of what is essentially pandering to populism.

Next time a trans kid is getting the shit kicked out of them they should really explain Ricky Gervais is being ironic 

One of the worst things about the Jimmy Carr joke was that he just threw it in at the end of a really boring Roy Chubby Brown level set to get mugs like me to get his Netflix audience up. The lame excuse that it was to get people to think about the holocaust was pure bullshit, it was clickbait for ratings.

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5 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Lewis Hamilton trying to cancel old folk. "Why are we listening to older voices?"

I get that the three guys he is targeting (Jackie Stewart, Piquet and Ecclestone) have been outrageous but to then try to shut up all older people? 

One day, a 60 year old Hamilton might be the one being cancelled as he will be out of touch.


Hamilton is a whiny gimp. Cancelling F1 would be a huge net positive for humanity.

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I've seen people who are in favour of online "cancelling" sneer at "the marketplace of ideas" as a concept. 

I've also seen people who argue against "cancel culture" because they claim to be free speech advocates and support the marketplace of ideas. 

In my mind there is no difference between the two concepts. You spout opinions which are unpopular, you bear the cost. You spout popular opinions, you can benefit. That's a market mechanism. 

 

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45 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I've seen people who are in favour of online "cancelling" sneer at "the marketplace of ideas" as a concept. 

I've also seen people who argue against "cancel culture" because they claim to be free speech advocates and support the marketplace of ideas. 

In my mind there is no difference between the two concepts. You spout opinions which are unpopular, you bear the cost. You spout popular opinions, you can benefit. That's a market mechanism. 

 

Or to put it another way 

 

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Aye, 'cancelling' should be down to the consumer, i.e. folk can put their material out and if folk don't like it, for whatever reason, said material won't be popular/won't make much (or any) money or not get viewers (potentially leading to platforms not picking up future stuff from someone).

So pretty much how things are now really.

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1 hour ago, coprolite said:

I've seen people who are in favour of online "cancelling" sneer at "the marketplace of ideas" as a concept. 

I've also seen people who argue against "cancel culture" because they claim to be free speech advocates and support the marketplace of ideas. 

In my mind there is no difference between the two concepts. You spout opinions which are unpopular, you bear the cost. You spout popular opinions, you can benefit. That's a market mechanism. 

 

Your first cohort are in favour of market regulation because they view some ideas as inherently harmful. They are also cynical about the existence of "free" markets given meritocracy is a myth and power imbalances are likely to be exacerbated in an unregulated system. 

I'm not sure there is any contradiction in the thought process of the first cohort.

The second cohort tend to deliberately misconstrue market regulation and the consequences of actions. 

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