Cancel culture

[MrWorldwideJr]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I assume you share the same view when comedians joke about any subject? In which case, fair enough. If not, then you're being hypocritical IMO.


*** Edited to pick up on this point. If you haven't watched Dave Chappelle's latest special on Netflix, go and give it a watch. The last 15 minutes or so when he talks about his transgender friend and what happened to her as a result of the actions from those in the community who can't 'safely live in society'.

Tbh I've had a complete heads gone at you putting safely live in society in quotation marks as if the danger and difficulty that many transgender people face simply trying to live as themselves in the modern world is something I've made up or overexaggerated. Especially given you've combined it with recommending I watch another special specifically known for being openly transphobic. So think I will just leave it there.

What I'll say is that if you want to learn more about the transgender community (and I think everyone should because education around transgender people is pretty much non existent) and why the common tropes and talking points around transgender people are harmful and do real damage then Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle probably aren't the first sources you should be consulting.

[velo army]

I have nothing to add on the Gervais topic. I found him quite funny for a bit, but I think there's an inverse relationship between how political a  comedian becomes and how funny they are. Connolly was great, but started doing more opinion stating than comedy act and thus became less funny. George Carlin wasn't that funny for the latter decade of his life and Gervais has become the same. I think comedians have a shelf life. McIntyre's bit on the kilt outfit and some other observations on British life have had me in stitches, but there's only so much material you can get from that. There is also probably a few good reasons (aside from financial) why Graham Norton, for instance, doesn't do stand-up anymore. Certain schticks just aren't funny these days. Gay camp humour doesn't shock people into laughing as it once did, and Carr's aloof causticity just looks mean spirited now.

I haven't found too many british comedians I like, so my recommendations come from across the pond.

Iliza Schlesinger is brilliant. Her observations do focus at times on what it is to be a woman, but it's fresh and she is a very physical comedian too. She does a bit about how she wants to watch an episode of Shark Tank (like Dragons' Den) where the contestants have a meltdown and I've honestly watched it about 5 times. 

Nikki Glaser's stories are almost always about sex (even the one about why she won't share a bed with her dog) and she has a talent for making it a bit weird and sometimes even a bit uncomfortable. The bit about her dog is tremendous. She does a lot of that "roast" type comedy which I can't stand, but if you like that then fill yer boots.

Bill Burr probably needs no introduction, but he's a classic trickster/jester and I would say a pure comedian. He'll come out with a rant ("men should get paid more than women", "Gays getting the whole of July for pride is a bit much" or "I'm sick of hearing from Michelle Obama") against something that is universally (or at least performatively) agreed to be a good thing. He'll then proceed to comedically and cleverly make his case and playfully hold up a mirror to our own hypocrisies. His appearances on Conan are worth a watch too.

Louis CK is my absolute favourite. He's the only comedian who can consistently have me in silent, wheezing hysterics. An absolute master of his craft.

[velo army]

29 minutes ago, MrWorldwideJr said:

Tbh I've had a complete heads gone at you putting safely live in society in quotation marks as if the danger and difficulty that many transgender people face simply trying to live as themselves in the modern world is something I've made up or overexaggerated. Especially given you've combined it with recommending I watch another special specifically known for being openly transphobic. So think I will just leave it there.

What I'll say is that if you want to learn more about the transgender community (and I think everyone should because education around transgender people is pretty much non existent) and why the common tropes and talking points around transgender people are harmful and do real damage then Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle probably aren't the first sources you should be consulting.

Where would be a good place to look? I know I could google it, but I'm wondering if you have some oft visited news sites, youtubers or podcasts you like for this.

[carpetmonster]

36 minutes ago, velo army said:

Where would be a good place to look? I know I could google it, but I'm wondering if you have some oft visited news sites, youtubers or podcasts you like for this.

Katy Montgomerie’s Twitter feed is a decent place to start; links to her website in the bio and I’m pretty sure her YT channel is just under her own name. 

twitter.com/katymontgomerie 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by carpetmonster
Link

[19QOS19]

Tbh I've had a complete heads gone at you putting safely live in society in quotation marks as if the danger and difficulty that many transgender people face simply trying to live as themselves in the modern world is something I've made up or overexaggerated. Especially given you've combined it with recommending I watch another special specifically known for being openly transphobic. So think I will just leave it there.
What I'll say is that if you want to learn more about the transgender community (and I think everyone should because education around transgender people is pretty much non existent) and why the common tropes and talking points around transgender people are harmful and do real damage then Ricky Gervais and Dave Chappelle probably aren't the first sources you should be consulting.

So you haven't watched Chappelle's then? Seriously, go and watch the last 15 minutes when he starts talking about Daphne's story and then come back and retract your Heads Gone. You'll maybe then realise why I put that particular phrase in quotation marks.

And I can assure it's not because I think this - "quotation marks as if the danger and difficulty that many transgender people face simply trying to live as themselves in the modern world is something I've made up or overexaggerated" is wrong. Though if you read up on the story you'll appreciate the irony of such a statement.

If you can't be bothered watching it then even have a look at Daphne Dorman's story. It absolutely fucking tragic btw.

[dirty dingus]

Obviously the new targets of the rightwing media after the majority of gammons were willing to accept lighter skinned refugees from war torn countries.

[BFTD]

19 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

Obviously the new targets of the rightwing media after the majority of gammons were willing to accept lighter skinned refugees from war torn countries.

From the replies, I was a bit shocked that it was still acceptable for the tabloids to call gay people 'poofs' by the late Eighties. If someone had asked - and hey, why would they not - my memory would've been that they'd knocked that shit on the head for less obvious slights by then.

Private Eye was, of course, absolutely obsessed with homosexuality; I do remember that being something they had to get over in the Nineties. That's a stone Andrew Neil likes to throw at them whenever they make a crack about his lechery. It's very odd that the public schoolboys who dabbled in homosexuality can end up so keen to distance themselves from The Gayness.

[BFTD]

No idea what this Dave Chapelle transphobia stuff is about, but he's a massive NIMBY so he can GTF for that reason.

[19QOS19]

No idea what this Dave Chapelle transphobia stuff is about, but he's a massive NIMBY so he can GTF for that reason.

As I've suggested to the other poster, go and watch it to see. Or look up Daphne Dorman's story.

[BFTD]

9 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

As I've suggested to the other poster, go and watch it to see. Or look up Daphne Dorman's story.

Pretty grim that her wiki page redirects to a stand-up set by another comedian.

[dirty dingus]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

From the replies, I was a bit shocked that it was still acceptable for the tabloids to call gay people 'poofs' by the late Eighties. If someone had asked - and hey, why would they not - my memory would've been that they'd knocked that shit on the head for less obvious slights by then.

Private Eye was, of course, absolutely obsessed with homosexuality; I do remember that being something they had to get over in the Nineties. That's a stone Andrew Neil likes to throw at them whenever they make a crack about his lechery. It's very odd that the public schoolboys who dabbled in homosexuality can end up so keen to distance themselves from The Gayness.

I think the whole "danger, gays will corrupt us all"  broke down late 80's early 90's with the rave culture and going from fighting at football to dancing to Donna Summer. Good E was a good thing.

[19QOS19]

That last 15 minutes of Dave's show was incredible viewing.
From hilarity to lump in throat stuff and back again for 15 solid minutes.
I've watched it several times now and it doesn't get less sobering.
What Dave did for Daphne's family was fantastic and they have done nothing but support him against all the transphobia allegations.
A lot of these allegations are absolutely coming from people who haven't watched the show, are taking their outrage from other people telling them what to think (like [mention=75247]MrWorldwideJr[/mention] has done here) and as a result haven't the slightest idea what the f**k they are talking about.
It's a shame really.
Daphne's story is utterly tragic and Dave's telling of it deserves a lot more respect than he's getting.

Yeah it was genuinely shocking. I thought he was lining up a final joke and when he announced what happened it honestly hit me for 6. I was pretty upset for a few days after if I'm being truthful, truly awful story but as you say, I'm glad he told us.

[dirty dingus]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

If I remember rightly, the gay rights movement started to gain traction when AIDS broke out and major celebrities started coming out as gay and other influential celebs stood up and publicly fought for their acceptance. Then politicians started getting involved, introducing and revoking specific laws. Everyone started talking about in the the public sphere and eventually it started becoming accepted by the population. After years of oppression, acceptance started to gain traction in a relatively short time span.

I agree that celebrities done a lot to highlight acceptance but a lot of politicians were quite happy to use AIDS as a homosexual/junkie plague, even the Aids adverts at the time were scary dark messages.  I was talking about the "lad/casual culture" when being called a big poofer or shirt lifter were accepted derogatory term but going clubbing changed that perspective as the gay scene was way ahead of the curve and mixing with a hedonistic vibe broke down barriers quicker than any government initiative could. 

[btb]

 

7 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

I agree that celebrities done a lot to highlight acceptance but a lot of politicians were quite happy to use AIDS as a homosexual/junkie plague, even the Aids adverts at the time were scary dark messages.  I was talking about the "lad/casual culture" when being called a big poofer or shirt lifter were accepted derogatory term but going clubbing changed that perspective as the gay scene was way ahead of the curve and mixing with a hedonistic vibe broke down barriers quicker than any government initiative could. 

That's my recollection of the reaction to AIDS in the 80s with the Conservative government using it to push through the Section 28 Clause in 1988 - ultimately it was the pushback against this legislation, which wasn't repealed until over a decade later (by Labour & SNP administrations) which galvanized the LGBT movement.

[BFTD]

9 minutes ago, btb said:

That's my recollection of the reaction to AIDS in the 80s with the Conservative government using it to push through the Section 28 Clause in 1988 - ultimately it was the pushback against this legislation, which wasn't repealed until over a decade later (by Labour & SNP administrations) which galvanized the LGBT movement.

The Wiki page for Section 28 is well worth a look to see the stance of some very familiar names, some of whom obviously didn't personally give a f**k one way or the other but used homophobia as a handy tool to win support and bash the opposition.

Michael Howard, for example, essentially puts his own change of heart down to the public "not being fussed anymore". God help homosexuals if the press whip their readership up into a frenzy again, because our politicians won't.

[SweeperDee]

Yeah I was pretty upset by it too.
What really angered me though was the response to Daphne by trans activists when she publicly defended Chappelle against accusations of transphobia. Her own community absolutely rag-dolled her all over social media for a week until she killed herself. And to this day that community of activists still blame Chappelle for her death. Remember this was a man who invited Daphne to open his next gig for him when he found out she wanted to be a stand-up and has setup a trust fund for her children's education. And yet, we are expected to believe he's a transphobe because he told a few jokes. These people are so arrogantly convinced they hold the moral high ground that they'll never accept any responsibility for Daphne's death and they won't remotely consider any other view than their own - not even the view of Daphne's family.
And all this over a couple of fucking jokes. Give me strength...

Yup. Chapelle is truly one of the good guys, and anyone who thinks he’s phobic of any demographic are disingenuous as f**k.

[BFTD]

8 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

Yup. Chapelle is truly one of the good guys

Before going too far down that route, you might want to look into his attempts to stop affordable housing being built in his neighbourhood in case it affects the value of his house.

[BigDoddyKane]

Maybe there were legit reasons for that objection, certainly would require more than just reading the headlines which none of the articles I read seemed to go any deeper on to know for sure who was in the right . Im not sure Id take a housing development companys word either. 

 

[Estragon]

19 hours ago, BFTD said:

Stalin's started erasing himself from history now too?

He could at least have started with the other evil dictators, like Hitler, Pol Pot, or John Sim.

^^

Big dictator found. 

[BFTD]

Massive surprise to see Oaksoft "doing his own research" and defending a fellow NIMBY.