Mr Tourette Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I’ve just scanned through the last 5 pages of this and am a bit confused. I don’t use Twitter so excuse me if I’ve got this wrong, but surely if you were following somebody who was spouting shite you didn’t agree with, you would just stop following them so you wouldn’t have to read it?Also, regarding newspapers and tv media peddling stuff you dont agree with, again just stop reading/watching it?I may be naive but I find it hard to believe anyone with half a brain can continue reading/watching something with content they don’t agree with and end up being swayed to that way of thinking.All media has a target audience 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, throbber said: Was the JK Rowling Input basically that she believes what defines a woman is whether the person menstruates or not? Or did she say something more provocative than that? I'm bored but was wondering too. Claims in these 11 tweets that putting people on a life-long medicalisation programme is the same as 'conversion therapy'. An another Tweet This one about sex/gender. There may be more but I'm not that bored! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 There are a lot of people who live in echo chambers online where the language these kind of concepts are the daily discourse. There is a much larger part of the country that does not really care or follow these kind of debates. This creates a huge gulf in society between those who are hyping themselves up every day and those in the "slow lane". Many feel excluded and left out of politics or at least center left politics that would have been their natural home. Its a huge failure to empathise with these kind of people that left the gate wide open for the right. Brexit, Trump, Johnson all walked through it. This is very true.I genuinely couldn’t care less where a woman, trans woman, trans man pisses and I couldn’t care less what they identify themselves as. My opinion on the whole matter doesn’t go much beyond “live and let live” if I’m honest.Completely understand that others do feel more passionate about it and that’s great. If you want change for trans, trying to bazooka every single hint of a disagreeable opinion with the “bigot” chat is completely counterproductive.The only way you’ll stop things like Tory governments, elections of maniacs like Trump etc, is by gaining consensus - going off your head at reasonably minded people who would answer “how many genders are there?” with “two” is completely counterproductive.Debates turning into shitfests with the left/centre left turning on itself plays right into the hands of the real cunty c***s. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 ‘Absolutely this’s,’ a post saying who decides what is and isn’t bigotry. Next sentence decides something isn’t genuine bigotry. Pandarilla. The post i agreed with was pointing out the obvious problem of 'who decides'. That's my point. You think calling folk bigots and fascists is going to help things but the terms are completely overused and diluted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I’ve just scanned through the last 5 pages of this and am a bit confused. I don’t use Twitter so excuse me if I’ve got this wrong, but surely if you were following somebody who was spouting shite you didn’t agree with, you would just stop following them so you wouldn’t have to read it?Also, regarding newspapers and tv media peddling stuff you dont agree with, again just stop reading/watching it?I may be naive but I find it hard to believe anyone with half a brain can continue reading/watching something with content they don’t agree with and end up being swayed to that way of thinking.All media has a target audience I make a conscious effort to follow some people I don’t agree with.Don’t find myself being swayed necessarily but I’m open to having my mind changed and I’m interested in how other people think. I take everything with a pinch of salt regardless.I’m in a couple of group chats which double up as echo chambers, everybody agreeing and the first hint of disagreement you can sense people getting uptight. Utterly pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mr Tourette said: I may be naive but I find it hard to believe anyone with half a brain can continue reading/watching something with content they don’t agree with and end up being swayed to that way of thinking. The people with half a brain (or more) aren't the problem. Unfortunately there's a shit ton of people who form their opinions based on what the Daily Mail tells them, or what they hear Nigel Farage say on the BBC, or what a popular icon like JK Rowling posts on social media. What this all comes down to is, you either believe in free speech or you don't. JK Rowling gets online insults and death threats for posting her anti-trans opinions. Emma Watson gets the same for speaking out on women's rights. I'll bet comparatively few of those upset at the first, care as much about the second. In fact; I would wager that a good number of the people upset at the first are responsible for the second. You want freedom to spread hate? Then accept that others have the freedom to throw it back at you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, pandarilla said: You think calling folk bigots and fascists is going to help things but the terms are completely overused and diluted. I agree with what you're saying here but again, you're buying into the narrative that "the left" are the only one doing this. Any liberal celebrity who expresses their opinions, whether it's about the police murdering black people, women's rights or climate change receives insults and death threats every day. The women are routinely threatened with rape. So WHY do we only pay attention when it happens to celebrities expressing traditionally conservative opinions? Edited July 10, 2020 by Shotgun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shotgun said: The people with half a brain (or more) aren't the problem. Unfortunately there's a shit ton of people who form their opinions based on what the Daily Mail tells them, or what they hear Nigel Farage say on the BBC, or what a popular icon like JK Rowling posts on social media. I take it the people with half a brain are the ones who agree with you. Quote JK Rowling gets online insults and death threats for posting her anti-trans opinions. Emma Watson gets the same for speaking out on women's rights. I'll bet comparatively few of those upset at the first, care as much about the second. In fact; I would wager that a good number of the people upset at the first are responsible for the second. You are inventing something to be angry at in your head without evidence. Quote You want freedom to spread hate? Then accept that others have the freedom to throw it back at you. I am not sure Rowling issued death and rape threats. If Rowling has said something you disagree with, quote her and explain why she is wrong. The problem here is not Rowling, Farage or who ever. Its the way the internet works by creating and reinforcing echo chambers where people vie to be the most outraged. The voting systems on social media give people "dopamine hits", or short bursts of pleasure as their opinions are recognized and voted on. This become an addiction as people seek to constantly win approval by being the most on point and over the top commenter in an echo chamber. Everybody is wrong about things. Everyone is foolish about some issues. Everyone is offensive to a wide number of people on things they hold dear. Perhaps the authors would have been better calling for an end to voting systems on social media, or at least for political content on social media. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 hours ago, MixuFruit said: I think more specifically it would fall under the bit about gross misconduct. It's a hypothetical but I'm just trying to point out that the stuff Rowling has moved onto on her headlong dive into Glinnering herself is at the very fucking unacceptable end of any spectrum of conduct. Losing your job for saying what she's said is an appropriately painful lesson. I doubt it would. People are allowed to hold views and say things that you disagree with. They aren't allowed to discriminate or harass. It is perfectly possible for some religious nutter to treat gay people respectfully and even handedly and but publicly advocate conversion. Remember that the liberal consensus is fragile. It is a majority view but not by as much as we'd like to think. I would hate to abuse the majority position to thought-police the right and erode free speech because if they become a majority they would take it away from liberals and minorities in a heartbeat if the precedent is there. Feel free to tell spatula boy his views are pathetic though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, dorlomin said: I take it the people with half a brain are the ones who agree with you. Do you disagree? You don't think people are influenced by what they read in the papers, see on television or hear from people they admire? 9 minutes ago, dorlomin said: You are inventing something to be angry at in your head without evidence. I was speculating about something. Obviously I don't have evidence. But then you knew that. 9 minutes ago, dorlomin said: I am not sure Rowling issued death and rape threats. Neither to my knowledge have any other female celebrities but plenty have received them. Only an issue for Rowling though, eh? 9 minutes ago, dorlomin said: If Rowling has said something you disagree with, quote her and explain why she is wrong. Sure. 2 seconds on Google to find what she said about medical care for trans people. "Many, myself included, believe we are watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people, who are being set on a lifelong path of medicalization that may result in the loss of their fertility and/or full sexual function." Do I really need to explain to you why that's wrong? Edited July 10, 2020 by Shotgun 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shotgun said: Do you disagree? You don't think people are influenced by what they read in the papers, see on television or hear from people they admire? Quote The people with half a brain (or more) aren't the problem. Unfortunately there's a shit ton of people who form their opinions based on what the Daily Mail tells them, or what they hear Nigel Farage say on the BBC, or what a popular icon like JK Rowling posts on social media. So people with less than half a brain believe the Daily Mail, Nigel Farage and JK Rowling. What influences the people who have half a brain or more? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 08/07/2020 at 15:34, JTS98 said: I think this post highlights an important distinction. Someone like JK Rowling. Really? Who gives a f**k? She wrote some books that entertained kids and made her a fortune through movie rights. Regardless of what you think of trans rights, she's not an important person. However, there are far bigger fish here intellectually. Saladin Ambar has done some important work in multiple fields yet by simply presenting academic work has left himself open to attacks. Despite, on the face of it, being as 'right on' in many ways as it's possible to be. Mia Bay is a hugely important scholar on the African American experience. David Blight is, similarly. one of the most important scholars on the American experience. Kamel Daoud had a fatwa imposed on him for questioning the position of God in Arabic culture. George Packer is an important writer in the documentation of modern American history. Fareed Zakaria is one of the most respected news voices of his time. If you don't know who these people are, that's fair enough. People have different hobbies and interests. But writing off their objection on the basis of your own ignorance is a symptom of the issue they raise. I'm a bit unclear what you're objections to my post are (if, in fact, your objections are linked to my post). I mentioned J.K. Rowling because she is obviously high profile and is the most recent example of being held to account for her abhorrent views. I don't see who is writing off the objection of the above named academics. I'm grateful for the information regarding their roles in academic life though. I'll look them up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Thankfully this thread has now come full circle and we can just blame everything that's bad on 'the left'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, dorlomin said: So people with less than half a brain believe the Daily Mail, Nigel Farage and JK Rowling. What influences the people who have half a brain or more? Oh FFS, is that what you were getting at? I referenced those 3 because we were discussing people who agree with them. Yes, people of all levels of intelligence will be/can be influenced by all flavours of commentary. Happy now? My point is that if you want the freedom to express ugly opinions you need to grant people the freedom to be ugly back. I’ve made the mistake of going down a rabbit hole before by trying to explain to you something I’d said only to have you throw it back until it was beaten to death. I’m not doing it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: Thankfully this thread has now come full circle and we can just blame everything that's bad on 'the left'. Not even 'the left'. dorlomin is blaming Tumblr teens for losing the Red Wall. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Shotgun said: My point is that if you want the freedom to express ugly opinions you need to grant people the freedom to be ugly back. You justified death and rape threats. Then tried to claim the people upset at Rowling's threats were possibly involved in the equally odious threats to Emma Watson. This is just a tiny example of the toxicity of online debate. Good people get sucked into pretty unpleasant places to score points. When someone starts pulling apart what people say it rarely looks good. If you want to be really unpopular on the internet, take people at their word and read what they say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 16 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Not even 'the left'. dorlomin is blaming Tumblr teens for losing the Red Wall. You aspire to be merely vapid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I’m cisgendered so I feel I should be on the same side as the feminists But I also have a cock and balls so I should probably be on the same side as the trans women It’s confusing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, dorlomin said: You justified death and rape threats. <Sigh> No, I fucking well didn’t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: But I also have a cock and balls so I should probably be on the same side as the trans women Wid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.