Cancel culture

[Granny Danger]

On 16/06/2021 at 13:23, ICTChris said:

One of the benefits of age is that you can remember what people were saying and doing in the past, which can be a helpful guide to how seriously to take them on the present. Morgan, for example, was once touted as taking the Mirror back to its left wing campaigning roots. He rehired John Pilger and had the paper oppose the Iraq war, one of the few major papers to do so and the only tabloid (I think).  Of course, that all ended with him publishing obviously faked photos on the front page and getting sacked amid sales plummeting. He’s reinvented himself now as some sort of right wing populist, it’s all bullshit. He’s a terrible journalist, an appalling human being and he will literally say anything for attention. Best ignored.

 

I can’t.

I’m assuming you’re still relatively young.

[Mr Waldo]

 

Jess De Wahls, an artist from East Germany, who I assume will know a thing or two about censorship, is cancelled by the Royal Academy because 8 people complained about her views. Wonder if they called her a 'Fascist'?

Yeomi Park, a defector to USA from North Korea, who will know a few things, criticises a US university on teaching people what to think, not how to think and how Jane Ausin is evil!

 

[SANTAN]

The fundamental thing I dislike about "cancel culture" is that it is predominantly steered by those that dislike the person to begin with. 

It's much more impactful when say the followers or supporters of someone call them out for something and then they subsequently lose out on clout/revenue and do a retraction rather than when people that never took the person seriously try to call them out for behaviour they find questionable. Let's say for instance someone prominent from the SNP makes a big error and I express my disdain and demand consequences then at the end of the day nobody gives a f**k because I disliked them from the jump if however I called out some Unionist politician I supported then it would certainly have more credibility and impact and people would take it more seriously. With all the usual Twitter cancellations it's already people that don't have any attachment to the person trying to convince people that do they should cancel them, it only really ever means anything when it's someone from the group that calls someone else in the same group out in my opinion. This is a rare occurrence though.

A good example of this might be JK Rowling and the trans issues, there is an interest to me in that story even if I disagree with cancelling her it's certainly worth discussing why a large majority of her fans were the ones to try and cancel her rather than people that disliked her from the start. I've read quite a few interesting pieces about the overlap between the LGBQT community and Harry Potter fans and it's obviously quite a complex issue but it's worth mentioning as I said due to the fact it's actually her customers that are calling her out. 

TLDR; you can't be cancelled if you don't have any subscribers. 

 

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Stormzy said:

The fundamental thing I dislike about "cancel culture" is that it is predominantly steered by those that dislike the person to begin with. 

Let's say for instance someone prominent from the SNP makes a big error and I express my disdain and demand consequences then at the end of the day nobody gives a f**k because I disliked them from the jump if however I called out some Unionist politician I supported then it would certainly have more credibility and impact and people would take it more seriously.

You are treading a fine line between cancel culture and a protest vote though I absolutely see where you're coming from.  

For example, i was very happy, on Thursday to register my vote for the Lib Dems in the Amersham and Chesham by election and saying to the Boris govt. that I don't like him, his govt or its politics.  This was a protest vote.  Something the daft wee tartan gonks on here are incapable of doing.

Cancel culture is more about clamping folk who may have a decent point but, because you're not part of their tribe, have to be held up for ridicule. This is something the daft wee tartan gonks on here excel in.

Just one simple example.  Douglas Ross had his pic taken with David Beckham at Wembley on Friday.  In response to said pic being posted, one prominent P&Ber said:

- He wouldn’t have survived in the Scotland end...And the suspect list would be long.

This is the extent to which posters on here would go to have people with different views treated.  It really is not nice.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Wont someone think of Douglas Ross?

[coprolite]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

You are treading a fine line between cancel culture and a protest vote though I absolutely see where you're coming from.  

For example, i was very happy, on Thursday to register my vote for the Lib Dems in the Amersham and Chesham by election and saying to the Boris govt. that I don't like him, his govt or its politics.  This was a protest vote.  Something the daft wee tartan gonks on here are incapable of doing.

Cancel culture is more about clamping folk who may have a decent point but, because you're not part of their tribe, have to be held up for ridicule. This is something the daft wee tartan gonks on here excel in.

Just one simple example.  Douglas Ross had his pic taken with David Beckham at Wembley on Friday.  In response to said pic being posted, one prominent P&Ber said:

- He wouldn’t have survived in the Scotland end...And the suspect list would be long.

This is the extent to which posters on here would go to have people with different views treated.  It really is not nice.

Don't worry, it took me a while to get a handle on what "cancel culture" meant too. 

[Jacksgranda]

16 hours ago, Stormzy said:

The fundamental thing I dislike about "cancel culture" is that it is predominantly steered by those that dislike the person to begin with. 

It's much more impactful when say the followers or supporters of someone call them out for something and then they subsequently lose out on clout/revenue and do a retraction rather than when people that never took the person seriously try to call them out for behaviour they find questionable. Let's say for instance someone prominent from the SNP makes a big error and I express my disdain and demand consequences then at the end of the day nobody gives a f**k because I disliked them from the jump if however I called out some Unionist politician I supported then it would certainly have more credibility and impact and people would take it more seriously. With all the usual Twitter cancellations it's already people that don't have any attachment to the person trying to convince people that do they should cancel them, it only really ever means anything when it's someone from the group that calls someone else in the same group out in my opinion. This is a rare occurrence though.

A good example of this might be JK Rowling and the trans issues, there is an interest to me in that story even if I disagree with cancelling her it's certainly worth discussing why a large majority of her fans were the ones to try and cancel her rather than people that disliked her from the start. I've read quite a few interesting pieces about the overlap between the LGBQT community and Harry Potter fans and it's obviously quite a complex issue but it's worth mentioning as I said due to the fact it's actually her customers that are calling her out. 

TLDR; you can't be cancelled if you don't have any subscribers. 

 

You're entering the realms of fantasy with that sort of statement.

[strichener]

16 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Just one simple example.  Douglas Ross had his pic taken with David Beckham at Wembley on Friday.  In response to said pic being posted, one prominent P&Ber said:

- He wouldn’t have survived in the Scotland end...And the suspect list would be long.

This is the extent to which posters on here would go to have people with different views treated.  It really is not nice.

There is simply no example of cancel culture here.

[coprolite]

3 hours ago, strichener said:

There is simply no example of cancel culture here.

Would you expect better from a lib dem voter? 

[BigDoddyKane]

21 hours ago, Mr Waldo said:

 

Jess De Wahls, an artist from East Germany, who I assume will know a thing or two about censorship, is cancelled by the Royal Academy because 8 people complained about her views. Wonder if they called her a 'Fascist'?

Yeomi Park, a defector to USA from North Korea, who will know a few things, criticises a US university on teaching people what to think, not how to think and how Jane Ausin is evil!

 

I read that about the artist from east Germany, unless something was missing.  I dont really see why they "cancelled" her. Seemed a bit harsh 

Edited June 21, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I read that about the artist from east Germany, unless something was missing.  I dont really see why they "cancelled" her. Seemed a bit harsh 

Completely wrong.

She merely said that she believed in biological sex.

Apparently, this upset some snowflakes.

[tamthebam]

I thought for a moment biological sex was shagging a packet of Aerial.

That would upset me, if not itch a bit.

[Arabdownunder]

10 hours ago, BigDoddyKane said:

I read that about the artist from east Germany, unless something was missing.  I dont really see why they "cancelled" her. Seemed a bit harsh 

She would have been a small child in 1989. The "from East Germany" patter is a Daily Mail talking point to try and draw some equivalence between "cancel culture" and the Stasi

[Ross.]

3 hours ago, Arabdownunder said:

She would have been a small child in 1989. The "from East Germany" patter is a Daily Mail talking point to try and draw some equivalence between "cancel culture" and the Stasi

While I completely agree, I work with a couple of guys who are of similar age and grew up in what would have been East Germany, and I think there is a noticeable mentality difference when compared to my colleagues from the rest of Germany.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

'Cancel culture' is just another right-wing trope designed to stifle....ironically.....free speech. As is the ridiculous term, 'woke'. (TM The Telegraph).

Let's be honest about what is going on in the UK. There is a sustained and long term attack from the right-wing media, and backed up now apparently officially by the Tory government, to challenge values that they detest. 

Diversity, liberalism, progressive values. Generally all of these things and more have been in the sights of the right wing for decades now. Brexit....which was a culture war and nothing to do with economics...opened the door that these people have been waiting for. 

The straw man used constantly by the right wing is 'freedom of speech'. They'll take isolated extreme examples of what they call 'cancel culture', exaggerate them out of all proportion, and use them to inflame the lowest common denominator in UK society. 

The aim of the right wing is not to have 'freedom of speech'. It's all about stamping down and silencing anything and anyone who does not represent their poisonous right wing values and aims. 

 

[Mr Waldo]

Yeah, coz she never spoke to her family about their lives growing up.

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

'Cancel culture' is just another right-wing trope designed to stifle....ironically.....free speech. As is the ridiculous term, 'woke'. (TM The Telegraph).

Let's be honest about what is going on in the UK. There is a sustained and long term attack from the right-wing media, and backed up now apparently officially by the Tory government, to challenge values that they detest. 

Diversity, liberalism, progressive values. Generally all of these things and more have been in the sights of the right wing for decades now. Brexit....which was a culture war and nothing to do with economics...opened the door that these people have been waiting for. 

The straw man used constantly by the right wing is 'freedom of speech'. They'll take isolated extreme examples of what they call 'cancel culture', exaggerate them out of all proportion, and use them to inflame the lowest common denominator in UK society. 

The aim of the right wing is not to have 'freedom of speech'. It's all about stamping down and silencing anything and anyone who does not represent their poisonous right wing values and aims. 

 

It's simply a smokescreen for  the government sleepwalking us towards right wing authoritarianism, which is now pretty constant. See the below:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/21/tory-mps-accused-of-adding-fuel-to-culture-war-in-education-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

That some choose to concentrate on an art gallery gift shop not stocking someone's prints anymore, or someone complaining that they were asked to use people's preferred pronouns at University, which is what our two most recently cited examples of cancel culture actually consist of, is not something which should be taken seriously. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

4 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

It's simply a smokescreen for  the government sleepwalking us towards right wing authoritarianism, which is now pretty constant. See the below:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/21/tory-mps-accused-of-adding-fuel-to-culture-war-in-education-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

That some choose to concentrate on an art gallery gift shop not stocking someone's prints anymore, or someone complaining that they were asked to use people's preferred pronouns at University, which is what our two most recently cited examples of cancel culture actually consist of, is not something which should be taken seriously. 

You're absolutely correct to say that this is a smokescreen for right wing authoritarianism, and the examples you give are ridiculous. However, they're all part of the insiduous campain to appeal to the lowest common deniminator in UK society, to paint diversity and liberalism as 'extreme', and to silence progressive voices.

Look at what see in the British media on a daily basis....constant attacks on organisations or people that do not fit into this right wing mindset. The BBC, universities, Nicola Sturgeon, sporting organisations, civil rights groups, charities, and more. The right wing press are developing phrases....cancel culture, woke etc.....that are designed to make these people and organisations into the enemies of 'normal' British people. 

The narrative is constantly being pushed that diversity and progressivism is 'anti British'. That it's extreme. That it holds the country back. 

And the most ridiculous one of all, that diversity and progressivism 'stifle free speech'.....despite the right wing owning most of the UK print media, and despite a right wing narrative being pushed down our throats for decades now. 

This narrative has always been there, but this is the first time in history that the UK has a government that encourages regressive, backward, inward looking, pseudo far-right thinking. 

It's a very dangerous time for the country, and we shouldn't think that it's just going to go away. Brexit was a cultural vote....anti immigration mainly, but it's opened the door to those who have been desperate for years to wipe the words diversity and progression from the English language. 

We should all be taking this seriously. 

[ICTChris]

Interesting article about the subject, around a controversy that I don’t remember from the time

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/22543858/isabel-fall-attack-helicopter

[Jacksgranda]

On 22/06/2021 at 08:42, Ross. said:

While I completely agree, I work with a couple of guys who are of similar age and grew up in what would have been East Germany, and I think there is a noticeable mentality difference when compared to my colleagues from the rest of Germany.

Have you got the opposite of a lisp?