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I think an understated but major problem has been this perceived need to find 'balance' on topics which is how you end up with thicko professional contrarians like Brendan O' Neill, Tom Harwood and Darren Grimes being invited on every panel going to do nothing but hold the opposing view on a topic. Genuinely one of the better recent discussions I seen on Sky News recently was one involving MLK's son and one of the founders of Black Lives Matter to discuss the efficacy of the Minnesota riots because you had two people that were knowledgable and held their own nuanced opinions on the subject where there was a lot of broad agreement but differences on specifics.
 
The media are absolutely biased in all sorts of ways.

But do you have any suggestions of how we can fix this?

I'd love the bbc to man up and stop being so scared to tackle governments. Dafc is right in that ch4 are much better at that.

But how do we get folk to stop buying the right wing shit that's promoted on sites like the mail online, or any more extreme sites?

How do we redress this balance?
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13 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

I've just discovered this guy.   Starts with Linehan, so it seemed a bit apt.

 

I mean that shows more than anything that the people who face genuine consequences for their speech aren't Rowling etc, but the people who tell them to f**k off

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1 hour ago, Detournement said:

I would guess it closely tracked support for Scottish independence. 

It definitely was never below 25%.

 

That wasn't my point. My point was that it didn't really matter as a priority to most people until it began to dominate the political media landscape.

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I remember someone on Twitter filmed Jonathan Pie out recording one of his epic rants and it genuinely was harrowing footage. Just a middle aged man in a suit yelling at a camera in the middle of the park by himself.

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14 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I remember someone on Twitter filmed Jonathan Pie out recording one of his epic rants and it genuinely was harrowing footage. Just a middle aged man in a suit yelling at a camera in the middle of the park by himself.

With Andrew Doyle stood to the side touching himself no doubt 

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There's something in this for sure but f**k knows why they've put JK Rowling on the list, folk are still buying her shitey wizard stuff, she just got called out for being a bigot did she not? 

Remember this from last year? There is a clambering to be woke whatever that means without consideration of context quite often and its an absolute gift for the right wingers of this world. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

With Andrew Doyle stood to the side touching himself no doubt 

That would be less harrowing because it would mean they were doing it together, no it was just him in the park alone gesturing wildly at a camera lol.

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What are you suggesting, though?

If we hide these right wing views then they'll go away?

More than 50% of the voters decided they wanted to leave the uk. It exasperates me but what can we do?

The Internet and social media has massively dented the influence of the old media owners, which is a good thing.



If you hide the right wing views then you drive them underground and just give those who hold the views a grievance narrative based around the MSM silencing then.

Need to win the argument and get people to think about what they’re saying. If you put their views in a box and tell people not to open it, you’re asking for trouble.
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5 hours ago, NotThePars said:

That wasn't my point. My point was that it didn't really matter as a priority to most people until it began to dominate the political media landscape.

Your point was clear. You should have used a graph, it's the only language these people understand. 

https___d1e00ek4ebabms.cloudfront.net_production_971de8b9-67f5-43fa-a44c-570977847b5f_FINAL.thumb.png.fdef6419fe6ecef4ad9c5123df78d3c5.png

 

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Guest JTS98
11 hours ago, pandarilla said:

The media are absolutely biased in all sorts of ways.

But do you have any suggestions of how we can fix this?

This issue comes back to our perception of what is and is not an acceptable way to run a society.

We, meaning people in and from The West, tend to start and finish that representative democracy with free speech and a free media are the absolute musts of living in a good society.

Yet, when you scratch the surface of that, it is easy to see that a free media can quite clearly be harmful to society in a representative democracy as it has the power to skew the conversation in terms of 1) what issues are presented as valid for discussion and 2) how those issues are framed. And in a society where the media is run by such wealthy individuals and groups, it is easy to see how that power can be used to form public opinion and use 'we had a democratic vote' as the basis for justifying pretty much anything.

There's a reason why leaders like Saddam Hussein hold sham elections. An election justifies whatever you do next.

This becomes even more of a problem when you consider that we know that public perception of economic, political, and social situations often do not tally with reality. For example, it was widely reported a couple of years ago that British people hugely over-estimate the Muslim population of the UK, which could clearly influence views on immigration. How much of the over-estimation can be blamed on the huge amount of coverage immigration issues receive in the media?

How much do you understand about local, national, and international economics? I know hee haw. But I still vote from what I consider to be a reasoned position on something that, in all honesty, I don't understand.

That's just a couple of examples, but it obviously stands to reason that when it comes to voting most people enter the polling booth with at best a loose grasp on the issues at hand and with a view coloured by the media they are exposed to.

It raises a couple of questions that are seldom genuinely considered these days.

1) Is democracy actually good? What are the benefits and drawbacks?

2) Is a free media compatible with a functioning democracy?

I think there's a reasonable case to be made for answering no to both of those questions.

Edited by JTS98
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26 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

This is absolutely it. No matter what your centrist da’s like Pandarilla and JTS think, free ‘speech’ applies to both those speaking and those offering the platform.
 

The idea that fascists should be given a platform because they will lose the debate is absolutely fanciful, giving fascists a platform leads to radicalisation.

I wonder if the reaction would be the same were it suggested we should give Abu Hamza a seat on question time? BuT fREe SpeECh, bEAt tHeM wITh DEbaTE!!!

I agree, free speech is free speech but I suppose it depends on what you class as 'massive bigot' and 'fascist'. These terms seem to be massivly overused and therefore get diluted.

Is this about the 'people who menstrate' tweet? I am not really up to speed on this tweety thing. Is someone who believes in 2 genders a massive bigot?  No one can agree how many genders there are, it's all very confusing and everyone needs educating. Being all shouty doesn't really help. 

My concern is who decides who is a fascist and ban them?    My gut feeling is 'the law'. Abu Hamza was convicted of hate speech, real hate speech, he can GTF.

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21 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

I’ve not read the whole thread, and you might have been called out on this before, but this is genuinely an abhorrent opinion.
 

Having a bad experience with a CIS man does not give you the right to be a massive bigot towards transgender women. 
 

Cancel culture is people exercising their free will and free speech, things that those who are trying to stifle cancel culture propose to love. 

'Cancel culture '  by the very definition of its own words is about the attempting to block out, and deny the views, of those who don't agree with you.

No one has to be bigoted to be on the receiving end of cancel culture.  And if all that someone does in life is 'call out' others..., without having much else

to contribute then they  truly are little more than a no mark person. 

J S Rowling has brought joy to many millions of people of all ages through her writing. I decline to start branding her as a bigot on the basis of one utterance. 

I try to form my views of others not by the clothes they wear, or who they say they are.. ( identity politics ) ..., but by whether, in the round,  they are obnoxious c*nts

or really couldn't give a shit about anyone other than themselves. 

 

As it happens, I frequent a blog that is made up of writers of books for children.  A different writer contributes an article each day, or few days.  I folow the blog,

and occasionally comment.   Writers do worry about what to write, what to say, whether one slip, one sentence will get them 'called out'. 

 

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17 hours ago, pandarilla said:

Surely folk aren't suggesting no platforming farage?

Folk voted for brexit, and as much as I'd like a tightening up of the funding for political campaigns - ultimately you can't just pretend that those views don't exist.

The only alternative to them is to win the argument, again and again. Unless you're going to offer an alternative to democracy?

Pish, pish and more pish. Farage has stood for election to the House of Commons in 5 general elections and 2 by-elections and has lost every single fucking one of them. If the people in his constituency don't want to hear his views, why are they forced on the rest of the nation?

How much of a platform do actual, elected Green MPs/MSPs get in the press? Fucking none. So this "democracy deserves to hear from everyone" line is absolute nonsense.

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