Jump to content

Cancel culture


Recommended Posts

An open letter has been published in Harper's Magazine, where a number of well known writers, journalists, academics and others have condemned what has been called 'cancel culture'.

Here is the letter

Quote

 

A Letter on Justice and Open Debate

July 7, 2020
The below letter will be appearing in the Letters section of the magazine’s October issue. We welcome responses at letters@harpers.org

Our cultural institutions are facing a moment of trial. Powerful protests for racial and social justice are leading to overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society, not least in higher education, journalism, philanthropy, and the arts. But this needed reckoning has also intensified a new set of moral attitudes and political commitments that tend to weaken our norms of open debate and toleration of differences in favor of ideological conformity. As we applaud the first development, we also raise our voices against the second. The forces of illiberalism are gaining strength throughout the world and have a powerful ally in Donald Trump, who represents a real threat to democracy. But resistance must not be allowed to harden into its own brand of dogma or coercion—which right-wing demagogues are already exploiting. The democratic inclusion we want can be achieved only if we speak out against the intolerant climate that has set in on all sides.

The free exchange of information and ideas, the lifeblood of a liberal society, is daily becoming more constricted. While we have come to expect this on the radical right, censoriousness is also spreading more widely in our culture: an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty. We uphold the value of robust and even caustic counter-speech from all quarters. But it is now all too common to hear calls for swift and severe retribution in response to perceived transgressions of speech and thought. More troubling still, institutional leaders, in a spirit of panicked damage control, are delivering hasty and disproportionate punishments instead of considered reforms. Editors are fired for running controversial pieces; books are withdrawn for alleged inauthenticity; journalists are barred from writing on certain topics; professors are investigated for quoting works of literature in class; a researcher is fired for circulating a peer-reviewed academic study; and the heads of organizations are ousted for what are sometimes just clumsy mistakes. Whatever the arguments around each particular incident, the result has been to steadily narrow the boundaries of what can be said without the threat of reprisal. We are already paying the price in greater risk aversion among writers, artists, and journalists who fear for their livelihoods if they depart from the consensus, or even lack sufficient zeal in agreement.

This stifling atmosphere will ultimately harm the most vital causes of our time. The restriction of debate, whether by a repressive government or an intolerant society, invariably hurts those who lack power and makes everyone less capable of democratic participation. The way to defeat bad ideas is by exposure, argument, and persuasion, not by trying to silence or wish them away. We refuse any false choice between justice and freedom, which cannot exist without each other. As writers we need a culture that leaves us room for experimentation, risk taking, and even mistakes. We need to preserve the possibility of good-faith disagreement without dire professional consequences. If we won’t defend the very thing on which our work depends, we shouldn’t expect the public or the state to defend it for us.

 

Below is a list of the signatories, I've put it in spoiler tags so the post doesnt look too weird.

 

Several people on the list have been attacked for things they have siad - most notably JK Rowling for what she has said about trans rights and women's rights.  Others include Steven Pinker, who some have sought to have removed from the Linguist Society of the US for some of his repsonses to the recent crisis.  Salman Rushdie was given a death sentence by the Iranian state for his novel the Satanic Verses, several people involved in it were murdered.  Noam Chomsky has been attacked for his advocacy of freedom of speech for Robert Faurisson, a Holocasust denier.  Margaret Atwood has been criticised for her support of a colleague who was accused of being sexually inappropriate with students.  There are probably other people on there who have similar backgrounds.

What do P&Bers think of this letter and of cancel culture in general?  Does it exist?  If it doesn't should it?

Have any P&Bers ever been cancelled?  Have you ever cancelled anyone?

I should be cancelled for being unable to use spoiler tags.  I am learning and with your support will do better.

 

 

Elliot Ackerman
Saladin Ambar, Rutgers University
Martin Amis
Anne Applebaum
Marie Arana, author
Margaret Atwood
John Banville
Mia Bay, historian
Louis Begley, writer
Roger Berkowitz, Bard College
Paul Berman, writer
Sheri Berman, Barnard College
Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet
Neil Blair, agent
David W. Blight, Yale University
Jennifer Finney Boylan, author
David Bromwich
David Brooks, columnist
Ian Buruma, Bard College
Lea Carpenter
Noam Chomsky, MIT (emeritus)
Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University
Roger Cohen, writer
Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.
Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project
Kamel Daoud
Meghan Daum, writer
Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis
Jeffrey Eugenides, writer
Dexter Filkins
Federico Finchelstein, The New School
Caitlin Flanagan
Richard T. Ford, Stanford Law School
Kmele Foster
David Frum, journalist
Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University
Atul Gawande, Harvard University
Todd Gitlin, Columbia University
Kim Ghattas
Malcolm Gladwell
Michelle Goldberg, columnist
Rebecca Goldstein, writer
Anthony Grafton, Princeton University
David Greenberg, Rutgers University
Linda Greenhouse
Rinne B. Groff, playwright
Sarah Haider, activist
Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern
Roya Hakakian, writer
Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution
Jeet Heer, The Nation
Katie Herzog, podcast host
Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College
Adam Hochschild, author
Arlie Russell Hochschild, author
Eva Hoffman, writer
Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute
Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute
Michael Ignatieff
Zaid Jilani, journalist
Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts
Wendy Kaminer, writer
Matthew Karp, Princeton University
Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative
Daniel Kehlmann, writer
Randall Kennedy
Khaled Khalifa, writer
Parag Khanna, author
Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University
Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy
Enrique Krauze, historian
Anthony Kronman, Yale University
Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University
Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University
Mark Lilla, Columbia University
Susie Linfield, New York University
Damon Linker, writer
Dahlia Lithwick, Slate
Steven Lukes, New York University
John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer
Susan Madrak, writer
Phoebe Maltz Bovy, writer
Greil Marcus
Wynton Marsalis, Jazz at Lincoln Center
Kati Marton, author
Debra Maschek, scholar
Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago
John McWhorter, Columbia University
Uday Mehta, City University of New York
Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University
Yascha Mounk, Persuasion
Samuel Moyn, Yale University
Meera Nanda, writer and teacher
Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine
Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University
Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer
George Packer
Nell Irvin Painter, Princeton University (emerita)
Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden
Orlando Patterson, Harvard University
Steven Pinker, Harvard University
Letty Cottin Pogrebin
Katha Pollitt, writer
Claire Bond Potter, The New School
Taufiq Rahim, New America Foundation
Zia Haider Rahman, writer
Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin
Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic
Neil Roberts, political theorist
Melvin Rogers, Brown University
Kat Rosenfield, writer
Loretta J. Ross, Smith College
J.K. Rowling
Salman Rushdie, New York University
Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University
Diana Senechal, teacher and writer
Jennifer Senior, columnist
Judith Shulevitz, writer
Jesse Singal, journalist
Anne-Marie Slaughter
Andrew Solomon, writer
Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer
Allison Stanger, Middlebury College
Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University
Wendell Steavenson, writer
Gloria Steinem, writer and activist
Nadine Strossen, New York Law School
Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School
Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University
Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University
Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama
Adaner Usmani, Harvard University
Chloe Valdary
Lucía Martínez Valdivia, Reed College
Helen Vendler, Harvard University
Judy B. Walzer
Michael Walzer
Eric K. Washington, historian
Caroline Weber, historian
Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers
Bari Weiss
Sean Wilentz, Princeton University
Garry Wills
Thomas Chatterton Williams, writer
Robert F. Worth, journalist and author
Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Matthew Yglesias
Emily Yoffe, journalist
Cathy Young, journalist
Fareed Zakaria

Several people on the list have been attacked for things they have siad - most notably JK Rowling for what she has said about trans rights and women's rights.  Others include Steven Pinker, who some have sought to have removed from the Linguist Society of the US for some of his repsonses to the recent crisis.  Salman Rushdie was given a death sentence by the Iranian state for his novel the Satanic Verses, several people involved in it were murdered.  Noam Chomsky has been attacked for his advocacy of freedom of speech for Robert Faurisson, a Holocasust denier.  Margaret Atwood has been criticised for her support of a colleague who was accused of being sexually inappropriate with students.  There are probably other people on there who have similar backgrounds.

What do P&Bers think of this letter and of cancel culture in general?  Does it exist?  If it doesn't should it?

Have any P&Bers ever been cancelled?  Have you ever cancelled anyone?

 

 

Edited by ICTChris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking through the list, there's just one person I could say that I "follow" in terms of reading/listening to their stuff, and this letter won't have any impact on that.

Other platforms should learn from P&B and have their own 12 Ruel Street. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

An open letter has been published in Harper's Magazine, where a number of well known writers, journalists, academics and others have condemned what has been called 'cancel culture'.

Here is the letter

Below is a list of the signatories, I've put it in spoiler tags so the post doesnt look too weird.

 

Several people on the list have been attacked for things they have siad - most notably JK Rowling for what she has said about trans rights and women's rights.  Others include Steven Pinker, who some have sought to have removed from the Linguist Society of the US for some of his repsonses to the recent crisis.  Salman Rushdie was given a death sentence by the Iranian state for his novel the Satanic Verses, several people involved in it were murdered.  Noam Chomsky has been attacked for his advocacy of freedom of speech for Robert Faurisson, a Holocasust denier.  Margaret Atwood has been criticised for her support of a colleague who was accused of being sexually inappropriate with students.  There are probably other people on there who have similar backgrounds.

What do P&Bers think of this letter and of cancel culture in general?  Does it exist?  If it doesn't should it?

Have any P&Bers ever been cancelled?  Have you ever cancelled anyone?

I should be cancelled for being unable to use spoiler tags.  I am learning and with your support will do better.

 

  Hide contents

Elliot Ackerman
Saladin Ambar, Rutgers University
Martin Amis
Anne Applebaum
Marie Arana, author
Margaret Atwood
John Banville
Mia Bay, historian
Louis Begley, writer
Roger Berkowitz, Bard College
Paul Berman, writer
Sheri Berman, Barnard College
Reginald Dwayne Betts, poet
Neil Blair, agent
David W. Blight, Yale University
Jennifer Finney Boylan, author
David Bromwich
David Brooks, columnist
Ian Buruma, Bard College
Lea Carpenter
Noam Chomsky, MIT (emeritus)
Nicholas A. Christakis, Yale University
Roger Cohen, writer
Ambassador Frances D. Cook, ret.
Drucilla Cornell, Founder, uBuntu Project
Kamel Daoud
Meghan Daum, writer
Gerald Early, Washington University-St. Louis
Jeffrey Eugenides, writer
Dexter Filkins
Federico Finchelstein, The New School
Caitlin Flanagan
Richard T. Ford, Stanford Law School
Kmele Foster
David Frum, journalist
Francis Fukuyama, Stanford University
Atul Gawande, Harvard University
Todd Gitlin, Columbia University
Kim Ghattas
Malcolm Gladwell
Michelle Goldberg, columnist
Rebecca Goldstein, writer
Anthony Grafton, Princeton University
David Greenberg, Rutgers University
Linda Greenhouse
Rinne B. Groff, playwright
Sarah Haider, activist
Jonathan Haidt, NYU-Stern
Roya Hakakian, writer
Shadi Hamid, Brookings Institution
Jeet Heer, The Nation
Katie Herzog, podcast host
Susannah Heschel, Dartmouth College
Adam Hochschild, author
Arlie Russell Hochschild, author
Eva Hoffman, writer
Coleman Hughes, writer/Manhattan Institute
Hussein Ibish, Arab Gulf States Institute
Michael Ignatieff
Zaid Jilani, journalist
Bill T. Jones, New York Live Arts
Wendy Kaminer, writer
Matthew Karp, Princeton University
Garry Kasparov, Renew Democracy Initiative
Daniel Kehlmann, writer
Randall Kennedy
Khaled Khalifa, writer
Parag Khanna, author
Laura Kipnis, Northwestern University
Frances Kissling, Center for Health, Ethics, Social Policy
Enrique Krauze, historian
Anthony Kronman, Yale University
Joy Ladin, Yeshiva University
Nicholas Lemann, Columbia University
Mark Lilla, Columbia University
Susie Linfield, New York University
Damon Linker, writer
Dahlia Lithwick, Slate
Steven Lukes, New York University
John R. MacArthur, publisher, writer
Susan Madrak, writer
Phoebe Maltz Bovy, writer
Greil Marcus
Wynton Marsalis, Jazz at Lincoln Center
Kati Marton, author
Debra Maschek, scholar
Deirdre McCloskey, University of Illinois at Chicago
John McWhorter, Columbia University
Uday Mehta, City University of New York
Andrew Moravcsik, Princeton University
Yascha Mounk, Persuasion
Samuel Moyn, Yale University
Meera Nanda, writer and teacher
Cary Nelson, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Olivia Nuzzi, New York Magazine
Mark Oppenheimer, Yale University
Dael Orlandersmith, writer/performer
George Packer
Nell Irvin Painter, Princeton University (emerita)
Greg Pardlo, Rutgers University – Camden
Orlando Patterson, Harvard University
Steven Pinker, Harvard University
Letty Cottin Pogrebin
Katha Pollitt, writer
Claire Bond Potter, The New School
Taufiq Rahim, New America Foundation
Zia Haider Rahman, writer
Jennifer Ratner-Rosenhagen, University of Wisconsin
Jonathan Rauch, Brookings Institution/The Atlantic
Neil Roberts, political theorist
Melvin Rogers, Brown University
Kat Rosenfield, writer
Loretta J. Ross, Smith College
J.K. Rowling
Salman Rushdie, New York University
Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
Daryl Michael Scott, Howard University
Diana Senechal, teacher and writer
Jennifer Senior, columnist
Judith Shulevitz, writer
Jesse Singal, journalist
Anne-Marie Slaughter
Andrew Solomon, writer
Deborah Solomon, critic and biographer
Allison Stanger, Middlebury College
Paul Starr, American Prospect/Princeton University
Wendell Steavenson, writer
Gloria Steinem, writer and activist
Nadine Strossen, New York Law School
Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., Harvard Law School
Kian Tajbakhsh, Columbia University
Zephyr Teachout, Fordham University
Cynthia Tucker, University of South Alabama
Adaner Usmani, Harvard University
Chloe Valdary
Lucía Martínez Valdivia, Reed College
Helen Vendler, Harvard University
Judy B. Walzer
Michael Walzer
Eric K. Washington, historian
Caroline Weber, historian
Randi Weingarten, American Federation of Teachers
Bari Weiss
Sean Wilentz, Princeton University
Garry Wills
Thomas Chatterton Williams, writer
Robert F. Worth, journalist and author
Molly Worthen, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Matthew Yglesias
Emily Yoffe, journalist
Cathy Young, journalist
Fareed Zakaria

Several people on the list have been attacked for things they have siad - most notably JK Rowling for what she has said about trans rights and women's rights.  Others include Steven Pinker, who some have sought to have removed from the Linguist Society of the US for some of his repsonses to the recent crisis.  Salman Rushdie was given a death sentence by the Iranian state for his novel the Satanic Verses, several people involved in it were murdered.  Noam Chomsky has been attacked for his advocacy of freedom of speech for Robert Faurisson, a Holocasust denier.  Margaret Atwood has been criticised for her support of a colleague who was accused of being sexually inappropriate with students.  There are probably other people on there who have similar backgrounds.

What do P&Bers think of this letter and of cancel culture in general?  Does it exist?  If it doesn't should it?

Have any P&Bers ever been cancelled?  Have you ever cancelled anyone?

 

 

I skimmed through the list of signatories - the only two I recognised were J K Rowling & Salman Rushdie. Closer examination may reveal others, but to quote Mr McCoist "Who are these people"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is "Cancel culture" not just a modern day equivalent to boycotting things you didn't like? South Africa during apartheid for example, was subject to significant public boycotts across a lot of areas.

The only real issue I see with the Twitter version is that it seems there is a lot of immaturity involved across the board, and a complete lack of ability/willingness to try and see things from any perspective other than the one that you have decided to come at it from, and there is no room for any grey areas in debate, only absolutism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Respect to Steven Pinker for practicing what he preaches and not letting something like running an international child trafficking ring stop you from engaging in a free exchange of ideas

Screen Shot 2019-07-16 at 12.23.24 PM.png

Edited by NotThePars
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Shandon Par said:

It's essentially people crying about red-dotting. What goes on on twitter isn't necessarily real life to the bulk of the world's population. Rowling or Linehan, for example, are no different to folk on here taking the huff when they get called out for being an obnoxious c**t. 

Maybe those being "cancelled" need to work on their skills of fostering inclusive debate? Twitter, for example, has (IIRC) a limited number of characters, so if you are to enter into sensitive debate then the main thing you must have is linguistic dexterity. If you simply spout an opinion that is likely to cause anger then you invite the ire of those on the other side. 

Rowling, for example, wrote books about a Wizard school. Lineham wrote Father Ted (yet sounds an utterly insufferable c**t to work with according to many co-writers these days). Why have they appointed themselves as authorities on issues that have fek all to do with them? It seems like egos out of control that get bruised when suddenly they stray into territory beyond their ken they can't cope when their media feed goes from fawning to vitriol.

As I recall, Rowling has been the subject of physical abuse by men/or a partner.  And that's the underlying reason she's fearful of, for example, transgender people

using women's public lavatories.   Seems a valid reason for her to express that view on Twitter , or anywhere else she chooses to. 

The difference between red dotting and , for example, Twitter, is that here, everyone's 'anonymous'.

Edited by beefybake
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Salman Rushdie I've read Satanic Verses and it's pish. Obviously the all the fatwa stuff is out of order but he was 100% trying to provoke islamists. 

If you go out of your way to wind someone up you can't really complain about the consequences of them being wound up imo. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

On Salman Rushdie I've read Satanic Verses and it's pish. Obviously the all the fatwa stuff is out of order but he was 100% trying to provoke islamists. 

If you go out of your way to wind someone up you can't really complain about the consequences of them being wound up imo. 

Yes you can. What an idiotic thing to say. 
 

Still none the wiser as to what this cancel culture is. Appears to be twitter based so I’m assuming it’s shit for c***s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, coprolite said:

Yes you can. What an idiotic thing to say. 

The novel is the literary equivalent of Bruce Willis walking through Harlem with the 'I hate N*****s' sign in Die Hard 3.

The guy is an idiot. Him Amis and Hitchens are three of the worst people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

an intolerance of opposing views, a vogue for public shaming and ostracism, and the tendency to dissolve complex policy issues in a blinding moral certainty.

 

16 minutes ago, Detournement said:

On Salman Rushdie I've read Satanic Verses and it's pish.

 

3 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The guy is an idiot.

I see you missed that top bit from the letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest JTS98
31 minutes ago, Detournement said:

On Salman Rushdie I've read Satanic Verses and it's pish. Obviously the all the fatwa stuff is out of order but he was 100% trying to provoke islamists. 

If you go out of your way to wind someone up you can't really complain about the consequences of them being wound up imo. 

You can't complain about being wound up, but I think you can complain about having a death sentence imposed on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest JTS98

I've gone through the list of signatories and, while there are a number of names I'm familiar with and whose views I roughly have a good handle on, the two that stick out for me are Chomsky and Pinker, in whose general area of study I work.

Both are important voices in the study of linguistics and both have been vilified for perceived mis-steps in public discourse. While I agree and disagree with aspects of both people's work, it is clear that their removal from the discussion is harmful to overall discourse in areas where people are trying to make progress.

I'd add Salmon Rushdie to my list of people who may or may not be bellends, but who still have valuable things to say about life. Many posters are saying they don't know who these people are. Well, find out.

'Cancel culture' is an unhelpful phrase as it's something that is often used by people trying to downplay the influence of shouty voices on public discourse. But it is important that difficult discussions are still allowed in academia and that 'bad' voices are allowed to be heard and discussed. That's progress and it's from encountering bad ideas that good ideas are formed.

My job involves writing university courses and I've had requests from universities in the UK and abroad to remove certain voices from courses. In one instance I gave up the job of writing the course involved because I felt the changes I was being asked to make in the name of avoiding offence cheapened the course to the point where I didn't want my name on it.

Bad ideas are out there. Offensive ideas are out there. They should be spoken about and openly countered. They should not be avoided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...