Serious incident in Glasgow

[101]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

I'm no polis, but surely a highly-trained firearms officer could shoot a person in a way that would incapacitate a knife-holder rather than kill him?

They shoot to kill

[Gaz]

Just now, 101 said:

They shoot to kill

Is that an official policy?

[Romeo]

I'm no polis, but surely a highly-trained firearms officer could shoot a person in a way that would incapacitate a knife-holder rather than kill him?

EDIT: I realise that my poorly-worded post makes it look like I'm criticising the police officer who shot the boy - to clarify, I'm not, but nor am I a fan of deleting posts. I'm just wondering whether there was method in trying to keep this guy alive in order to ascertain motive.

You've been watching too many cop shows.

 

Maybe they could have shot the knife out of his hand?

[Gaz]

Just now, Romeo said:

5 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I'm no polis, but surely a highly-trained firearms officer could shoot a person in a way that would incapacitate a knife-holder rather than kill him?
EDIT: I realise that my poorly-worded post makes it look like I'm criticising the police officer who shot the boy - to clarify, I'm not, but nor am I a fan of deleting posts. I'm just wondering whether there was method in trying to keep this guy alive in order to ascertain motive.

You've been watching too many cop shows.

I can't argue with that tbf

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Three people were rushed to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital where they were pronounced dead.

They were then transferred to a better hospital, where doctors upgraded their condition to alive.

[Gaz]

Just now, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Three people were rushed to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital where they were pronounced dead.

They were then transferred to a better hospital, where doctors upgraded their condition to alive.

This is the post

[Shandon Par]

 

7 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Three people were rushed to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital where they were pronounced dead.

They were then transferred to a better hospital, where doctors upgraded their condition to alive.

They were pronounced dead but were allowed back to the hotel on the proviso they took rooms on a lower floor.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Shandon Par

[peasy23]

I'm no polis, but surely a highly-trained firearms officer could shoot a person in a way that would incapacitate a knife-holder rather than kill him?
EDIT: I realise that my poorly-worded post makes it look like I'm criticising the police officer who shot the boy - to clarify, I'm not, but nor am I a fan of deleting posts. I'm just wondering whether there was method in trying to keep this guy alive in order to ascertain motive.

My mate used to be an armed response officer, they are trained to target the torso as it's the biggest target and the easiest bit to hit.

[beefybake]

16 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

No problems with the police shooting a knife wielding psycho who's already tried to kill half a dozen people.
Would rather he wasnt shot dead but they have a job to do.

Police with guns do not have a great record.

Particularly when it comes to proper accountability.

 

[MONKMAN]

Police with guns do not have a great record.
Particularly when it comes to proper accountability.
 

It’s the first time the police have ever shot and killed someone on the streets of Scotland.

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

No problems with the police shooting a knife wielding psycho who's already tried to kill half a dozen people.
Would rather he wasnt shot dead but they have a job to do.

Pretty sure they are now trained to "shoot to kill" so the police have no option

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

My mate used to be an armed response officer, they are trained to target the torso as it's the biggest target and the easiest bit to hit.

They ‘shoot to stop’ which generally means target the biggest area on the subject to avoid hitting anyone else. Counter terrorism firearms officers have different training which involves killing the subject regardless, ie if an explosive vest is observed etc.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Police with guns do not have a great record.
Particularly when it comes to proper accountability.
 

Nonsense. Investigated by PIRC, the police themselves (usually a different force), subject to judicial review and public enquiry and quite often civil litigation. People who dislike the police may not agree that there is accountability especially when it comes to shootings, but the truth couldnt be further from what you suggest.

[peasy23]

Nonsense. Investigated by PIRC, the police themselves (usually a different force), subject to judicial review and public enquiry and quite often civil litigation. People who dislike the police may not agree that there is accountability especially when it comes to shootings, but the truth couldnt be further from what you suggest.

Exactly. The laws regarding police firearm use here would have triggered an investigation even if the attacker hadn't been killed.

[101]

29 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Is that an official policy?

Yes - they aim for the body mass which is where all your organs are other than the brain. Trying to shoot a knife out someone's hand or shoot them in the arm as they run about isn't going to be as successful.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Yes - they aim for the body mass which is where all your organs are other than the brain. Trying to shoot a knife out someone's hand or shoot them in the arm as they run about isn't going to be as successful.

No its not, its shoot to stop.

[energyzone]

Just found out we don't have coroners in Scotland. The Procurator Fiscal can order an enquiry, but not sure what happens when there's little question about the events.

I wasn’t sure - I think there are sometimes Fatal Accident Inquiries about stuff like this?

The police, on behalf of the Procurator Fiscal have a responsibility to investigate and report the circumstances of certain deaths which include, for example, suspicious deaths, deaths which occur outdoors, unexpected deaths which cannot be immediately attributed to medical causes (including child deaths) and deaths which result from recent police contact (including deaths in custody).

Given that the only confirmed death from yesterday appears to have been as a result of a police action, the oversight of this investigation will lie with PIRC (Police Investigations & Review Commissioner), which is a statutory body and not part of Police Scotland. They don't have the resources to manage an investigation of this magnitude alone, so the inquiry will be carried out by the police, probably from a specialist investigative team, with PIRC working in tandem with the senior investigating officer.

There will be a full police investigation into these events. As to whether a Fatal Accident Inquiry is subsequently held - this would normally be decided following the conclusion of a criminal investigation and may not be required at all if the investigation sufficiently establishes the full circumstances.

[101]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

No its not, its shoot to stop.

Shoot them in the legs then?

Body mass is where they aim and it will almost always kill the suspect.

[Tutankhamen]

39 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Is that an official policy?

Aye

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

My mate works for the Armed Response Unit and he was saying that since the turn of the century officers have been, first and foremost, trained to shoot down the chandelier, ultimately pinning the suspect to the ground.

He reckons that the chandelier in the Park Inn stairwell was either too small to properly incapacitate the suspect or that it had been temporarily removed for maintenance.

In this scenario officers are, as has been alluded to above, trained to shoot the knife (or any other weapon, for that matter) out of the suspect's hand. Given the location of the incident, it's highly likely the suspect was sliding down the banister with the knife between his/her teeth, giving the officers no option but to aim for the torso.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Barry Ferguson's Hat