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2 hours ago, Ceejayar said:

There is an easier solution, the clubs instead of bleating for money from the sfa should tell the WOSL that without showers, changing facilities and fans getting into games they are not going to play.

Doubt the WoSFL is the top of the SFA's priority list at the moment.

f**k the SFA.

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Unfortunately we are now approaching a time of the year when playing conditions are not always the most favourable and without proper changing, washing  facilities etc clubs have to remember that they have a duty of care to the players especially with regard to their health and safety.

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2 hours ago, glensmad said:
3 hours ago, The Ilford Drummer said:
Exact opposite, high % of top flight clubs have told the league they want to start on the 10th with no showers,changing facilities or fans.
Bonkers

I'm not sure how you know that as the survey isn't complete yet and the IMG haven't seen the results yet.

Sorry should have said managers, but  sure you already know that.

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20 hours ago, Jack Burton said:
20 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:
You really think experts are telling Nicola that nonleague football with spectators is a no no right now, while others are telling Boris it's OK down south? 

Fans attending games has been stopped in England as well now.

Which leagues have stopped fans ? just out of interest,seeing as I saw Almondsbury 2 Oldland 1 last night. (Western League) think some leagues up north may be on the verge of BCD games

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19 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

 


I don’t think they have told her anything about non league football, they won’t be distinguishing it from any other spectator sport. Rightly or wrongly the government are not spreading the level or sports out.

Oh and by the way Boris just stopped sports fans in England with the National League considering suspending their season or perhaps cancelling altogether.

 

Think that's because the National Leagues are being considered as 'elite' if you can believe that.Crowds of 1,000 are easily workable at that level with the better grounds.

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Winton chairman in the local rag , no a happy bunny it seems .

" It's not football- it's a nonsense. We have grown men having to turn up to play under restrictions , change outside in an enclosure , can't get a shower , can't use any facilities , don't have spectators , it's not right  " . 

" We can't keep continuing with these friendlies it's not feasible , we have a couple more friendlies already lined up after that we are calling a halt ".

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I've been to three games in England. One at Penrith, and two at Carlisle City. My wife has an underlying health condition which means I have to take extra precautions, like leaving the ground five minutes early to avoid mingling close to other fans going through the exit. Despite the high level of social distancing aware ness on my part, I had someone at Penrith who insisted on standing right behind me at the game, so I moved. He followed about ninety seconds later, and stood right behind me again, and started shouting over the fence to his mates. When I remonstrated with him about his ignorance of social distancing he took a hissy fit. He wasn't blessed with the greatest of intelligence unfortunately, and I moved again rather than create a scene. I later moved twice more as other fans came and sat very near to me despite my sitting in areas well away from the majority. That wasn't deliberate on their behalf, it was just not thinking. Again, I moved twice to avoid any further confrontation.

On Saturday at Carlisle United, it was a lovely day, and I again socially distanced, but there was a group of about a dozen middle aged blokes in the corner near the exit all drinking and enjoying themselves, but with zero respect for social distancing. It made me rethink on going to such games again, and have decided not go. I had contemplated getting a season ticket at Carlisle City (it's only £2 per game). Ground's in the middle of nowhere, and average crowd is usually about 40 to 50. At the moment though it's about three times that with fans from all over the UK present. It's only about ten minutes longer to get there than it is for me to go to Auchinleck.

If that behaviour I've noted is replicated in Scotland at non league level, it would be harder still to try and instill the necessary discipline to ensure everyone's well being at the ground. At the risk of being labelled a sad person for actually believing the science, I think it makes absolute sense to scrap the season before it starts and try to get it going again in better times.

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And when will these better times be?

I've been to three games in England. One at Penrith, and two at Carlisle City. My wife has an underlying health condition which means I have to take extra precautions, like leaving the ground five minutes early to avoid mingling close to other fans going through the exit. Despite the high level of social distancing aware ness on my part, I had someone at Penrith who insisted on standing right behind me at the game, so I moved. He followed about ninety seconds later, and stood right behind me again, and started shouting over the fence to his mates. When I remonstrated with him about his ignorance of social distancing he took a hissy fit. He wasn't blessed with the greatest of intelligence unfortunately, and I moved again rather than create a scene. I later moved twice more as other fans came and sat very near to me despite my sitting in areas well away from the majority. That wasn't deliberate on their behalf, it was just not thinking. Again, I moved twice to avoid any further confrontation.
On Saturday at Carlisle United, it was a lovely day, and I again socially distanced, but there was a group of about a dozen middle aged blokes in the corner near the exit all drinking and enjoying themselves, but with zero respect for social distancing. It made me rethink on going to such games again, and have decided not go. I had contemplated getting a season ticket at Carlisle City (it's only £2 per game). Ground's in the middle of nowhere, and average crowd is usually about 40 to 50. At the moment though it's about three times that with fans from all over the UK present. It's only about ten minutes longer to get there than it is for me to go to Auchinleck.
If that behaviour I've noted is replicated in Scotland at non league level, it would be harder still to try and instill the necessary discipline to ensure everyone's well being at the ground. At the risk of being labelled a sad person for actually believing the science, I think it makes absolute sense to scrap the season before it starts and try to get it going again in better times.
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1 hour ago, TFW said:

I've been to three games in England. One at Penrith, and two at Carlisle City. My wife has an underlying health condition which means I have to take extra precautions, like leaving the ground five minutes early to avoid mingling close to other fans going through the exit. Despite the high level of social distancing aware ness on my part, I had someone at Penrith who insisted on standing right behind me at the game, so I moved. He followed about ninety seconds later, and stood right behind me again, and started shouting over the fence to his mates. When I remonstrated with him about his ignorance of social distancing he took a hissy fit. He wasn't blessed with the greatest of intelligence unfortunately, and I moved again rather than create a scene. I later moved twice more as other fans came and sat very near to me despite my sitting in areas well away from the majority. That wasn't deliberate on their behalf, it was just not thinking. Again, I moved twice to avoid any further confrontation.

On Saturday at Carlisle United, it was a lovely day, and I again socially distanced, but there was a group of about a dozen middle aged blokes in the corner near the exit all drinking and enjoying themselves, but with zero respect for social distancing. It made me rethink on going to such games again, and have decided not go. I had contemplated getting a season ticket at Carlisle City (it's only £2 per game). Ground's in the middle of nowhere, and average crowd is usually about 40 to 50. At the moment though it's about three times that with fans from all over the UK present. It's only about ten minutes longer to get there than it is for me to go to Auchinleck.

If that behaviour I've noted is replicated in Scotland at non league level, it would be harder still to try and instill the necessary discipline to ensure everyone's well being at the ground. At the risk of being labelled a sad person for actually believing the science, I think it makes absolute sense to scrap the season before it starts and try to get it going again in better times.

Utterly bizarre post with the greatest of respect. 

You are living with someone with underlying conditions and are happy swaning about the north of england watching basically meaningless matches involving teams you don't support and have the cheek to have a go at others behaviour then call for the season to be done away with as you obviously feel we are in a very serious situation which we are as it happens. 

You should be nowhere near a football end of story the now wether or not some spectators are compliant or not .

Edited by rncaa
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People need to take responsibility for their own actions. if their own personal circumstances dictate that it is better to steer clear then steer clear, but don't try to stop others from being able to proceed, if their circumstances are different. As long as schools and pubs are being kept open, the governments have basically adopted a Swedish approach and are no longer really trying to effectively contain the virus. There is no justification from a public health standpoint for not allowing lower level football with crowds in the hundreds to proceed in a similar manner to England at Step 3 and below at that point because there are far more likely venues for the spread of infection being actively kept open elsewhere.

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8 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. if their own personal circumstances dictate that it is better to steer clear then steer clear, but don't try to stop others from being able to proceed, if their circumstances are different. As long as schools and pubs are being kept open, the governments have basically adopted a Swedish approach and are no longer really trying to effectively contain the virus. There is no justification from a public health standpoint for not allowing lower level football with crowds in the hundreds to proceed in a similar manner to England at Step 3 and below at that point because there are far more likely venues for the spread of infection being actively kept open elsewhere.

Agree,  think about how many people have touched your loaf of bread in a supermarket or made up your 6 pack of morning rolls or served you your fags at the counter they don't get there by magic....  But it is not acceptable to stand yourself in the pishing rain in a junior ground,  the world is totally fu c ked..

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People need to take responsibility for their own actions. if their own personal circumstances dictate that it is better to steer clear then steer clear, but don't try to stop others from being able to proceed, if their circumstances are different. As long as schools and pubs are being kept open, the governments have basically adopted a Swedish approach and are no longer really trying to effectively contain the virus. There is no justification from a public health standpoint for not allowing lower level football with crowds in the hundreds to proceed in a similar manner to England at Step 3 and below at that point because there are far more likely venues for the spread of infection being actively kept open elsewhere.
I don't think you can compare going to a football match with the pubs and schools being open.

There is a lot of people working in the hospitality sector which is why they haven't been keen to close pubs and restaurants with the furlough scheme coming to an end. Wouldn't be surprised if pubs do end up closing once this new winter economic plan is announced tomorrow.

The schools are open as it is the best way for children to get an education and allows their parents to get on with working.

Allowing fans to attend games just isn't as high a priority and would just add another method for the virus to be spread.
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The virus doesn't care about the economic pain of keeping pubs closed and quality of education in the classroom vs online. You can't pick and choose like that if you are serious about prevention and elimination from a public health standpoint. Once those sort of factors are entering into the decision making equation, it's time for politicians to be honest that they have given up on the notion of waiting for a vaccine and are now happy for herd immunity to happen naturally because the numbers from other countries that have taken more of a vodka and sauna approach suggest getting there isn't much worse than a bad flu season.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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13 hours ago, andy25 said:

And when will these better times be?

In the not too distant future I would hope. 

I understand there's a move by some clubs to start the season without fans, and to me that's not only a nonsense, it's financial suicide for the vast majority of the smaller clubs at our grade. It might be okay if you can waive those fears aside because you're extremely well funded. but for the vast majority of clubs it would be catastrophic. Moan all you like about fans being allowed back in, I honestly can't see it happening. Doesn't mean I support that position, though, I'd love to be able to see the Talbot again soon, but as I mentioned, how it could be done so that everyone's well being is assured I don't know.

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2 minutes ago, TFW said:

In the not too distant future I would hope. 

I understand there's a move by some clubs to start the season without fans, and to me that's not only a nonsense, it's financial suicide for the vast majority of the smaller clubs at our grade. It might be okay if you can waive those fears aside because you're extremely well funded. but for the vast majority of clubs it would be catastrophic. Moan all you like about fans being allowed back in, I honestly can't see it happening. Doesn't mean I support that position, though, I'd love to be able to see the Talbot again soon, but as I mentioned, how it could be done so that everyone's well being is assured I don't know.

Even if some clubs can get started without fans and the rest go into abeyance. There would probably be real mix across the divisions. So how meaningful could the patchwork season be?

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13 hours ago, rncaa said:

Utterly bizarre post with the greatest of respect. 

You are living with someone with underlying conditions and are happy swaning about the north of england watching basically meaningless matches involving teams you don't support and have the cheek to have a go at others behaviour then call for the season to be done away with as you obviously feel we are in a very serious situation which we are as it happens. 

You should be nowhere near a football end of story the now wether or not some spectators are compliant or not .

With the greatest of respect....Indeed. I watch non league football because I love the game, full stop. If I had the chance of watching say Carlisle City or Manchester United it would be at Carlisle. I don't have SKY, BT Sport etc as I don't watch live football on the television, I need to be a ground to enjoy the game. These aren't meaningless games, they're games I thoroughly enjoy going to. It's why I watch Kello Rovers when Talbot aren't playing.

I don't "swan about the north of England" I drive to the ground, pick a safe spot, leave early and drive away. I manage my own health and safety. 

I also run a local foodbank, and I organise the health and safety of the users and the staff. I've organised health and safety in shipyards when I worked there, in refineries, and in public sector workplaces too. I know a wee bit about it. Your advice re whether or not I should be anywhere at all will be filed somewhere for later use, probably the bin. I want to see football back, but I want it to be safe. What a lot of the doom and gloom mongers on here fail to realise is that clubs are not just the hubs of their community, but they are employers also, and subject to the law of the land in regards of the health and safety of their fans, staff, and players.

If it could be done safely, I'd be back at Talbot tomorrow I imagine, following the same kind of steps I've taken elsewhere. I still don't know though how people's safety can be ensured, whatever precautions are taken? Another question as well, which I haven't seen asked anywhere is the issue of Public Liability Insurance. I assume all the clubs have to have it, but does it ask questions that would determine whether or not games could go ahead safely? I assume the premiums will eventually rise steeply as a result of Covid, the insurance industry are not noted for their philanthropy.

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Think the politicians are waiting to say 'i told you so' as their preferred plan of action works better v covid19. They don't want to be part of the gang who may have fucked things up somehow. Looks as if I'll be watching my football down here in England for a while, was optimistic of a return to Scotland in November, but that's wearing off. No one can convince me that it's safer to be in a supermarket amid 500+ rather than spread out at a game among 250, with fans being sensible. (May be the problem)

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14 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Think the politicians are waiting to say 'i told you so' as their preferred plan of action works better v covid19. They don't want to be part of the gang who may have fucked things up somehow...

If the average punter ever understands how messed up their initial response was the political elite in the UK are in big trouble. Lockdowns need to be done when the first cases are identified Taiwan style to be effective. Waiting until the exponential curve on deaths is already rocketing up was equivalent to trying to use an aspirin to cure terminal liver cancer. If Nicola Sturgeon goes to the UK treasury with a begging bowl for a football bailout as suggested in the link provided by The Ilford Drummer it will be difficult not to follow England's approach because the bailout will probably be targeted only at the "elite level".

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/coronavirus-joint-response-group-update-23-september/?rid=13929

...Neil Doncaster, CEO of the SPFL, commented: “We are engaging with the Scottish Government to underline the existential threat to many of our clubs, and to the huge community, economic and sporting benefits they deliver, if this grave situation continues without meaningful public financial support. We therefore welcome the intervention of the Scottish Government in seeking urgent discussions with the UK Government about a package of financial recovery for Scottish sport.

Hopefully Boris Johnson doesn't try to use Scottish football as a (wait for it yes I am going to use that analogy) political football in the wider game of constitutional politics that is ongoing between Westminster and Holyrood.

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