Restart

[TheLad]

Can we stop treating this as if they are kids going to a training session on a Wednesday night?  Either the facilities will need to be offered, and the guidelines adhered to, or the guidelines will need to be adjusted due to the fact that the facilities won’t support it.
Or, football below the Lowland League just might not happen in October.  

I wasnt treating this as if they are kids. I am being realistic. See above post from pyramid group mentioning changing facilities.
Still dont think I am a million miles away from my prediction.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

23 minutes ago, TheLad said:

I wasnt treating this as if they are kids. I am being realistic. See above post from pyramid group mentioning changing facilities.
Still dont think I am a million miles away from my prediction.
 

My point, not necessarily in response to your posts, is that there are a number posts seriously lacking a serious understanding of the issue.

The above highlights this:  "There are major issues around the use of changing rooms and the question of spectators has still to be addressed."

We have football grounds in the West of Scotland where officials are expected to get changed in an enclave of the club's kitchen facilities - without shower facilities.  Kilwinning previously had a tiny room shared with a boiler tank - again, without shower facilities.  That was unacceptable in 2019, and obviously a mental proposition in 2020.

Those are not resolved simply, and the suggestions - by some - of simply turning up in vehicles ready to play/officiate/coach  is just a non-starter.

Edited August 27, 2020 by HuttonDressedAsLahm
To quote

[TheLad]

My point, not necessarily in response to your posts, is that there are a number posts seriously lacking a serious understanding of the issue.
The above highlights this:  "There are major issues around the use of changing rooms and the question of spectators has still to be addressed."
We have football grounds in the West of Scotland where officials are expected to get changed in an enclave of the club's kitchen facilities - without shower facilities.  Kilwinning previously had a tiny room shared with a boiler tank - again, without shower facilities.  That was unacceptable in 2019, and obviously a mental proposition in 2020.
Those are not resolved simply, and the suggestions - by some - of simply turning up in vehicles ready to play/officiate/coach  is just a non-starter.

Ok,
And i agree that some of the facilities are not up to it across non league.

I also note that clubs will need to effectively be signed off to be allowed to play. Perhaps some facilities will mean their team will not be able to host games.

[Big Boab Jnr]

12 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

My point, not necessarily in response to your posts, is that there are a number posts seriously lacking a serious understanding of the issue.

The above highlights this:  "There are major issues around the use of changing rooms and the question of spectators has still to be addressed."

We have football grounds in the West of Scotland where officials are expected to get changed in an enclave of the club's kitchen facilities - without shower facilities.  Kilwinning previously had a tiny room shared with a boiler tank - again, without shower facilities.  That was unacceptable in 2019, and obviously a mental proposition in 2020.

Those are not resolved simply, and the suggestions - by some - of simply turning up in vehicles ready to play/officiate/coach  is just a non-starter.

I would suggest a solution would be to limit the numbers in changing facilities to a number which can adhere to social distance rules. So maybe 4,5 or 6 in the facility at any one time depending on the size of the room. Clean in between groups entering and leaving the facility. Nothing going to be ideal and extra time may be required for certain measures but we need to think outside the box sometimes if we truly want the football to survive.  

[Ginaro]

25 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Those are not resolved simply, and the suggestions - by some - of simply turning up in vehicles ready to play/officiate/coach  is just a non-starter.

That's obviously not suitable for everyone but if some players/coaches/officials can do so then it means fewer people needing to use the facilities.

[cmontheloknow]

Even if Covid makes a restart challengiing, clubs will survive if those running them want them to survive. The only employees our clubs have are coaches and players, and for those it's a second job (or should be). There are running costs of course such as rates and taxes, but a halt to football for a few months won't kill off clubs - provided they don't have a wage bill that they have to pay. If there's a worst case scenario and football isn't viable for the timebeing, the volunteers who have kept things going since March will still, by and large, be about for a restart. Most Scottish clubs lived through years of world war, though King's Park one were that didn't due to their ground being bombed... but Stirling Albion bobbed up in their place. Football will go on. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by cmontheloknow

[Innocent bystander]

Still too many unanswered questions in the latest update. With the possibility of a restriction on supporters attending games, starting back may put more financial strain on clubs as wages and the necessary costs related to the guidelines will require financed. A restriction (or no) on gate receipts could cripple a number of clubs.

[glensmad]

Still too many unanswered questions in the latest update. With the possibility of a restriction on supporters attending games, starting back may put more financial strain on clubs as wages and the necessary costs related to the guidelines will require financed. A restriction (or no) on gate receipts could cripple a number of clubs.

The update was as comprehensive as it could be. There is still no guidance from the Scottish Government or SFA regarding crowds, so the Pyramid Restart Group could not give that information.

[parsforlife]

44 minutes ago, Innocent bystander said:

Still too many unanswered questions in the latest update. With the possibility of a restriction on supporters attending games, starting back may put more financial strain on clubs as wages and the necessary costs related to the guidelines will require financed. A restriction (or no) on gate receipts could cripple a number of clubs.

Clubs aren’t forced to pay wages.   I would very surprised clubs without benefactor support are signing anyone on a deal that will leave them in the shit if they can’t get up and running.  I would suspect any signings being made will be on progressive deals of small retainer with no games, larger amount if restricted fans(I’m doubtful many clubs won’t be able to get their normal crowds in at a social distanced % of capacity.  The big paydays might be away for a bit, but a few hundred round a pitch isn’t too difficult to achieve.

The only scenario that can cause big problems I can see is a club with a big squad already signed up on long term deals with no benefactor support and a unsympathetic squad who would refuse to accept any reduced wages/deferrals/right to leave.  I would think most in that scenario are on borrowed time even without COVID 

[Innocent bystander]

8 minutes ago, glensmad said:

38 minutes ago, Innocent bystander said:

Still too many unanswered questions in the latest update. With the possibility of a restriction on supporters attending games, starting back may put more financial strain on clubs as wages and the necessary costs related to the guidelines will require financed. A restriction (or no) on gate receipts could cripple a number of clubs.

The update was as comprehensive as it could be. There is still no guidance from the Scottish Government or SFA regarding crowds, so the Pyramid Restart Group could not give that information.

Fully appreciate that the new league shall seek guidance. In fairness they’ve hardly put their head above the parapet since the return to train / play has been muted other than send out an arse covering guidance email.

I’d suggest that there are more than a few clubs with facilities where there would be major concerns using in the current climate. Could a representative of the association not visit their new member clubs to check the facilities on offer? Would maybe offer clubs some initial guidance on the needs of their facility?

[FairWeatherFan]

11 minutes ago, Innocent bystander said:

Fully appreciate that the new league shall seek guidance. In fairness they’ve hardly put their head above the parapet since the return to train / play has been muted other than send out an arse covering guidance email.

I’d suggest that there are more than a few clubs with facilities where there would be major concerns using in the current climate. Could a representative of the association not visit their new member clubs to check the facilities on offer? Would maybe offer clubs some initial guidance on the needs of their facility?

Nobody knows what the guidelines are going to be yet.

And from what's been said previously the clubs have been asked to provide information on what facilities they do have.

[Innocent bystander]

7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Nobody knows what the guidelines are going to be yet.

And from what's been said previously the clubs have been asked to provide information on what facilities they do have.

So I believe. Arse covering paper exercise. Aware of amateur leagues over the years where facilities were inspected prior to acceptance into their league. Is the WOSFL not deemed  to be professional league?

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, Innocent bystander said:

So I believe. Arse covering paper exercise. Aware of amateur leagues over the years where facilities were inspected prior to acceptance into their league. Is the WOSFL not deemed  to be professional league?

As part of the creation of the WoSFL i'm pretty sure they followed the EoSFL when it came to ground criteria https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EoSFL-Entry-Criteria-2018.docx

But one of those criteria is basically being able to offer a grace period to get things in place.

This was also a process that took place back in March/April. What do most clubs do during the summer? Make ground improvements. What information the league committees have to hand would already be out of date.

[GNU_Linux]

Also there was one club rejected outright. Think it was ground related.

[Innocent bystander]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

As part of the creation of the WoSFL i'm pretty sure they followed the EoSFL when it came to ground criteria https://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EoSFL-Entry-Criteria-2018.docx

But one of those criteria is basically being able to offer a grace period to get things in place.

This was also a process that took place back in March/April. What do most clubs do during the summer? Make ground improvements. What information the league committees have to hand would already be out of date.

Ground improvements are carried out by the member club’s throughout the summer months by invaluable committee members/volunteers and on many occasions paying for materials out of their own pocket. We’re in a different place now. 

[glensmad]

There is a Zoom meeting of all the WoSFL clubs on Tuesday evening, where the SFA's stipulated protocols for playing games will be laid out, and the opportunity to ask questions.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

1 hour ago, Innocent bystander said:

So I believe. Arse covering paper exercise. Aware of amateur leagues over the years where facilities were inspected prior to acceptance into their league. Is the WOSFL not deemed  to be professional league?

I think it's fair to say, that if a number of these Junior clubs didn't already exist prior to this transfer into the WoSFL, there's no chance they would be accepted.

I suspect that some creative thinking is going to be required for some clubs.  Some facilities are excellent, but some are a very long way short.  Unfortunately not everyone has rebuilt their facilities in recent years (ala Renfrew etc.), whilst others haven't changed much in 50 years.

What needs to be remembered, these clubs must comply with the same regulations and guidance as all other employers.  Being a football club, being a charitable foundation or otherwise, is not sufficient cause to operate at a standard below those obligations of the Costas/Starbucks/leisure centres of the world.

[glensmad]

Is the WOSFL not deemed  to be professional league?

The WoSFL is governed by the SFA's Non-Professional Game Board.

[Darvel legend]

the fact they have put major issues around the use of changing rooms doesnt read well , i just dont know how they can get around this as it would be a shambles to ask players to come in their kit , then go outside for team talks , then play the game and go up the road 

[santheman]

Going to be a bigger problem for any teams who play in council owned grounds that need upgrading to meet criteria.

Will the councils be prepared to spend the money required or let clubs carry out any work themselves at their expense?

In terms of reopening these facilities it’s all very well saying games can recommence on a certain date but that would be subject to Councils being on board with it and I would also assume that it would be their protocols that would have to be followed in terms of sanitisation and social distancing in order to protect their employees.