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12 minutes ago, glensmad said:
31 minutes ago, Ceejayar said:
Kind of my point, unless we can start at 100% clubs are going to struggle financially.

The vast majority of clubs will be able to have their normal 100% attendances even with social distancing.

I would agree on attendance but there will be revenue lost on hospitality and bar income I would think.

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1 hour ago, Ceejayar said:

Budgets would have been set months ago, all the way from premier all the way down through the leagues.

Budgets are not "set" in tablets of stone. Any comptetent management would have changed the budget in the light of the new circumstances. Which, incidentally, we knew about "months ago".

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The chances of ending up on a ventilator are minuscule.

If some pubs are busy with no social distancing at the moment, they're probably the ones that are needing shut again pronto.
Nobody's advocating hiding away for the rest of our lives, but equally there has to be cognisance of the fact that although the virus has been brought down to low levels, it hasn't gone away and if that means making changes to our behaviour to allow more things to start again and remain started, then so be it.
If that also means wearing a mask it'll mean wearing a mask...and not that lip service dick move of wearing it round the chin like I've seen more than a few doing!  If it's that much of a dealbreaker for some folk to wear one in order to allow games to take place, it's probably better they stay away.
It's better to wear a mask for a couple of hours than be on a ventilator for a month.
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20 minutes ago, andy25 said:

The chances of ending up on a ventilator are minuscule.

So are the chances of stepping off the pavement straight under a bus, but that doesn't mean we can just stop looking to see if anything's coming before we step off them.

Edited by Hillonearth
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44 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

Budgets are not "set" in tablets of stone. Any comptetent management would have changed the budget in the light of the new circumstances. Which, incidentally, we knew about "months ago".

Oh well, everything will be ok then, sorry for an opinion. 

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1 minute ago, andy25 said:

Do you wear a mask to cross the road then? emoji849.png

Look, I get it - you don't like wearing one. I doubt many folk actively enjoy it, but for the foreseeable it's going to be part of life...or at least it should be.

There's a good advert on CNN at the moment that shows a variety of different mask designs, with a voiceover saying that what design you wear can say a lot about you, but refusing to wear one says even more about you.

If it's a choice between getting the season started or standing on a point of principle I know what one I'm choosing.

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Some people don't seem to want the football to start anytime soon. Quotes on here stating December, some January, some next summer. This virus will not be gone by any of these dates so what then? I've read experts saying we will have it for the next 2 years and some now saying it will never actually go away and if we develop a vaccine we will need to get it every year. Unfortunately we can only self manage how we go about our lives to minimise our risk. If you think the risk to yourself or your family is to great then don't go, don't play or don't coach/manage its not compulsory. However let the others who can follow the protocols, self distance and be responsible for their own actions move forward with the return of the football. Clubs may find their incomes reduced but will find their feet eventually. Bars and club houses may have to reduce the numbers allowed through the doors but so do all pubs and bars and they seem to be coping. Players will have to adjust to new procedures but so have us all who are back at work. Lets be positive and support the return of football (which I know will be alien to some on here) and if it goes tits up I will be first to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.

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38 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

So are the chances of stepping off the pavement straight under a bus, but that doesn't mean we can just stop looking to see if anything's coming before we step off them.

Maybe the difference is that the chances are actually quite high that you will wind up under a bus at some point if you don't look both ways before stepping off the pavement? Most people are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms when they are infected with the virus. In the absence of a rapidly implemented vaccine, which was never particularly likely to happen, COVID-19 will run out of steam once herd immunity is achieved. The idea behind wearing face masks and social distancing etc was to flatten the curve to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed as that unfolded. There was no expectation that the risk of winding up on a ventilator was going to be completely eliminated, because normal life can't grind to a complete standstill.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Maybe the difference is that the chances are actually quite high that you will wind up under a bus at some point if you don't look both ways before stepping off the pavement? Most people are asymptomatic or have very mild symptoms when they are infected with the virus. In the absence of a rapidly implemented vaccine, which was never particularly likely to happen, COVID-19 will run out of steam once herd immunity is achieved. The idea behind wearing face masks and social distancing etc was to flatten the curve to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed as that unfolded. There was no expectation that the risk of winding up on a ventilator was going to be completely eliminated, because normal life can't grind to a complete standstill.

Absolutely we have to get back to some degree of normality as best we can, which I acknowledged in a previous post.

The downside is that at least in the short term we'll have to compromise and make accommodations to some extent, and if that means masking up for a couple of hours in order to get the season started, I guess that's the price we'll have to pay.

It also follows that if someone feels particularly strongly about not complying with that, they're probably better giving it a miss....a lot of people are putting in a lot of work in order to get the ball rolling, and I'd imagine no-one would want forever more to be known as "that c**t that got the season stopped after three games"!

 

 

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Todays Non League Paper is interesting, photos on front cover of fans at games,very few masks and looking a bit close too. Capacity of 150-300 rising to 300-600 by August 31st. Step 6 up to Step 3. In depth look at the FA guidelines, though I can't see anything about tickets being bought in advance etc.  

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18 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Todays Non League Paper is interesting, photos on front cover of fans at games,very few masks and looking a bit close too. Capacity of 150-300 rising to 300-600 by August 31st. Step 6 up to Step 3. In depth look at the FA guidelines, though I can't see anything about tickets being bought in advance etc.  

Anyone know anything about the standards of changing facilities at these grounds? (both teams and officials)

There's a huge variance in standards across the West of Scotland clubs (plenty have barely any space for three officials, never mind social distancing) whilst others are much better suited to cope with changes.

I've seen the suggestion of driving to games and straight onto the pitch, but I just don't see that as a practical solution - 2 hour+ round trips, no doubt soaked through/muddy/freezing on the return...  I haven't seen any proposed guidance from the SFA or SPFL on any of those issues yet?

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19 hours ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Todays Non League Paper is interesting, photos on front cover of fans at games,very few masks and looking a bit close too. Capacity of 150-300 rising to 300-600 by August 31st. Step 6 up to Step 3. In depth look at the FA guidelines, though I can't see anything about tickets being bought in advance etc.  

I took a trip down to NE England at the weekend. Having gone so long without a game, and picking up a last minute hotel pretty cheaply, made a night of it.

Went to the Bedlington Terriers match who playing the Northern League Div 2. (I decided against Ashington FC, who's match to their credit was made all ticket and no sales were permitted on matchday)

Cant vouch for any other game obvioulsy, but I'd have to say I was pretty disapointed in the Covid protocol measures at Bedlington. The crowd was sparse, so people were socially distancing pretty much by default when watching the match. However a different story altogether in the social club (which you had to go through to gain access to stadium) where drinkers were huddled together, a group of 'lads' playing pool, small toilets yet being used by multiple people etc. You did have to write your name and number on a sheet of paper when you entered, but even at that it was using a pen that someone else would have used minutes beforehand.

On reflection I think actually watching a game of football (and the same goes for playing football) poses minimal risk. The risk comes with all the other stuff. 

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4 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Cant vouch for any other game obvioulsy, but I'd have to say I was pretty disapointed in the Covid protocol measures at Bedlington. The crowd was sparse, so people were socially distancing pretty much by default when watching the match. However a different story altogether in the social club (which you had to go through to gain access to stadium) where drinkers were huddled together, a group of 'lads' playing pool, small toilets yet being used by multiple people etc. You did have to write your name and number on a sheet of paper when you entered, but even at that it was using a pen that someone else would have used minutes beforehand.

As opposed to what exactly? It's absolutely mind-boggling btw that you're wringing your hands over the risk of touching a pen after deciding to take a completely unnecessary jaunt to England in the first place and 'make a night of it'. 

 

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Just now, virginton said:

As opposed to what exactly? It's absolutely mind-boggling btw that you're wringing your hands over the risk of touching a pen after deciding to take a completely unnecessary jaunt to England in the first place and 'make a night of it'. 

 

????

You don't see that a pen passed from one person to another, to another, to another is a risk - granted a smal risk. A risk easily avoided by having someone at the door (and there was btw) jot the details down rather than all those entering the building

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4 minutes ago, Steven W said:

????

You don't see that a pen passed from one person to another, to another, to another is a risk - granted a smal risk. A risk easily avoided by having someone at the door (and there was btw) jot the details down rather than all those entering the building

You just made a entirely needless round trip of God-knows how many miles, waltzed around the place and stayed in a hotel overnight, yet you're worried about the infinitesimally small risk posed by somebody using the same pen as you? That is truly the height of fucking nonsense, right there. 

How many pubs and other establishments pay (or get a volunteer) to stand at the door taking names and details before letting customers in? It's an absolutely terrible 'solution' to a non-issue. 

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26 minutes ago, virginton said:

You just made a entirely needless round trip of God-knows how many miles, waltzed around the place and stayed in a hotel overnight, yet you're worried about the infinitesimally small risk posed by somebody using the same pen as you? That is truly the height of fucking nonsense, right there. 

How many pubs and other establishments pay (or get a volunteer) to stand at the door taking names and details before letting customers in? It's an absolutely terrible 'solution' to a non-issue. 

Camping Discovery Channel GIF by Discovery

It used to be called going out.

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45 minutes ago, virginton said:

You just made a entirely needless round trip of God-knows how many miles, Perfectly permissable,  waltzed around the place No i didn't and stayed in a hotel overnight, So? yet you're worried No I'm not. I merely highlighted something that is easily avoidable about the infinitesimally small risk posed by somebody using the same pen as you? That is truly the height of fucking nonsense, right there. 

How many pubs and other establishments pay (or get a volunteer) to stand at the door taking names and details before letting customers in? It's an absolutely terrible 'solution' to a non-issue. 

I don't who you are, but you're coming across as a bit of a bell end. Probably a nice person in real life though

Anyway, rather than let the thread be steered off at a tangent, I'll call it quits at that. Have a good day👍

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What's a more avoidable risk in the scenario that you're complaining about, people 'sharing a pen!!!111!!!!' to sign in to a social club or you just not bothering to swan to another part of the country and stay overnight to take in football match in the first place? If you choose to do the latter then having a breakdown about the unacceptable risk of pen use marks you out as a bit of a moron. 

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8 minutes ago, virginton said:

What's a more avoidable risk in the scenario that you're complaining about, people 'sharing a pen!!!111!!!!' to sign in to a social club or you just not bothering to swan to another part of the country and stay overnight to take in football match in the first place? If you choose to do the latter then having a breakdown about the unacceptable risk of pen use marks you out as a bit of a moron. 

Anyway, rather than let the thread be steered off at a tangent, I'll call it quits at that. Have a good day👍

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